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TOPIC: Hypothetical Coach Trade

shane Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #57

shane
The real business is putting a team on the ground that people want to buy tickets to watch every week.

But I don't think that's relevant to how hypotheticals work.
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Bizkit, Raglan Matt said You Beaut

2ndknuckle Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #58

2ndknuckle
Interesting topic, well written.

Had a quick skim through earlier posts....

Appears no one has mentioned the two elephants in the room? Sumich and Hird...
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Docker by the Sea Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #59

Docker by the Sea
RM in answer to your post, yes I have considered the possibility of players bringing their skills. I find it improbable that a persons level of skill will vary from week to week but their level of focus, intensity and application can.
I agree with other posters about club culture though, I don’t know that Clarkson had very much to do with the Hawks success through the eighties, so I think that maybe there is something in a successful club.
This is an area we have work to do but have come a very long way, we were regarded as a laughing stock not so long ago. Whether you like Lyon or not he has contributed to us gaining respect within the competition, as evidenced by players now entertaining the idea of playing for us.
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jimb2, Suker said You Beaut

rogerrocks Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #60

rogerrocks
Jezza, you are asking people to "keep their powder dry" until the season has panned out a bit more. Now where is the fun in that? The preferred course of action is to slam the coach after every loss, and also after every unimpressive win. Waiting until we have a good idea of how we are travelling will end up getting Dockerland shut down.
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Suker said You Beaut

jimb2 Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #61

jimb2
One thing that does make a good coach is being around for a long time. The Hawthorn board stood behind Clarkson when the supporters wanted him gone, as did the Richmond board supporting Hardwick when half their supporters wanted yet another change of coach.

As the Fremantle board are doing now. You won't get a strong club if it's driven by disgruntled supporters - or by counting critical articles in the paper.
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shane Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #62

shane
I don't believe that's true. Terry Wallance got progressively worse. Malthouse became predictable and repetitive. Blight lost interest.

What's true is that Clarkson is a good coach. Sticking behind him meant they kept a good coach, it didn't make him a good coach. If you think Ross Lyon is a good coach then you'd stick with him. If you don't then you wouldn't stick with him in the hope he'll become one.

The thing to note with Hawthorn is that they were prepared to ask the question on Clarkson, even after a premiership and then again after 4 premierships. Ross Lyon made it to the last round once and some at Fremantle think it means he gets to be coach for life.
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Blue1red1, The_Yeti, Bizkit, Raglan Matt, purplepower, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

purplepower Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #63

purplepower
Can't be more spot on
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Drubbing Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #64

Drubbing
They're too worried about going back to a coach with less experience, simply because we couldn't get anyone decent previously. If good players are seeing Freo as a viable option, why not coaches with potential?
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Docker by the Sea Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #65

Docker by the Sea
Realistically I don’t really know if Lyon is a good coach, my first thought would be he is the best we have had, and I don’t see an immediate obvious replacement.
I do think clubs think long and hard before replacing them, Buckey is an example of this. I would also argue that there is much more planning and preparation that has gone on behind the scenes that could possibly set a club further back to replace the coach.
Having said all that unless we are playing a lot more football like last week and a lot less like the week before by the end of the year then Lyon is in trouble.
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Morgan Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #66

Morgan
I wouldn't presume to understand Docker HQ's decision making on Lyon’s contract - sometimes it leaves me baffled - but I reckon it goes something like this:

i. They considered Lyon to be in the top 6 coaches in the league;
ii. Freo is a middle-tier club (at best) in terms of prestige;
iii. In 2016 it was obvious to everyone that based on the list profile things were going to get worse before they got better;
iv. Based on the above the prospects of attracting a top-line coach in 2016 were slim; therefore
v. It was in the best interests of the club to re-sign him to oversee the rebuild, and if the signs weren’t good enough sack him with a year or two to go, when some of the hard yards of the rebuild had been completed (thus being more attractive to a new coach).

The flaw to me is that the people who made the call to re-sign him are still overseeing if he’s the right man for the job. They are hopelessly conflicted.

Still, given the talent we’ve been adding to the squad, and the shift towards younger players, I reckon it will be easier to find a new coach in 2019 than 2016.
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Corporal Agarn, Docker by the Sea said You Beaut

jimb2 Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #67

jimb2
Agree you need more than time to produce a good coach - I wasn't suggesting otherwise - but changing coaches every few years is a recipe for disaster. It's just magical thinking.
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jimb2 Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #68

jimb2
"The flaw to me is that the people who made the call to re-sign him are still overseeing if he’s the right man for the job. They are hopelessly conflicted."

This is completely normal practice for a board of any organisation. The appoint people then monitor their activity. Who are you suggesting does the call, a collective of entitled supporters, newspaper journos, and AFL hacks. Or who?
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Suker Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #69

Suker
As long as we are hypothesizing...can't we just do a show of hands...a vote...a coach referendum so to speak?
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Morgan Hypothetical Coach Trade 6 years 1 month ago #70

Morgan
Let's say it was Bond who gave Lyon a multimillion dollar deal over five years to rebuild the club, and let's say in 12 months the rebuild isn't going well. I think it would be a difficult call for Bond to say 'yeah, I got that one wrong' without putting his own job at risk.

So, now we have a little cabal whose futures are tied together. It's in both of their interests to plead patience.

In my view, at some point you need someone not tied to the decisions of the past to ask the question of whether Lyon is still the right man for the job. Perhaps Alcock is that guy, but how would anyone know?
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