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TOPIC: Coach

exceed Coach 6 years 8 months ago #99

exceed
It is never just one thing.
Should Ross go - absolutely. His style of coaching has moved. Was he a good coach for his time absolutely.
This messiah complex our club has always had has been built on lack of confidence and lack of deep culture.
But to put this all at the foot of ross - definitely no.
His assistant coaches share much of the blame , conditioning staff and the absolute lack of successful first round recruiting since 2011 has been at best abysmal.
Whether the board is intimidated by Ross I am not sure. Certainly journalists appear to back off with fair questioning.
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Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

Morgan Coach 6 years 8 months ago #100

Morgan
Everyone can agree Freo played embarrassingly bad football yesterday, and people for the most part will attribute blame according to their preconceived ideas about who at a footy club they consider is ultimately responsible for success or failure. For most, the buck stops with the coach.

As a case study, McCarthy played like a total spud yesterday. Does the blame for that lie with him forgetting how to take marks, with the coach for not organising the team better, with Bond for recruiting him or not giving him better teammates, with the conditioning team, with GWS for making him miss a year? All of the above? Same goes for Tabs. He took a few decent marks yesterday in perfect conditions, but botched two kickable goals when we had momentum and the opportunity to apply scoreboard pressure. Is that his fault, Lyon’s for not picking him earlier and ruining his confidence, the skills coaches, Bond for not providing a better forward option etc. All of the above? You can go down the line.

When your team loses consecutive games by 100+ points, there’s plenty of blame to go around.

I had reasonably low expectations coming into the season. If for a number of consecutive years your first pick in the draft is closer to 20 than 1, you are going to struggle to get A-grade young talent into the squad. More so if you whiff on a few of those speculative late first-rounders (Simpson, Apeness). Still, if we could get our theoretical best team on the park and playing at their peak I reckon we could have finished in the finals; but nothing ever goes perfectly for any team, and we didn’t have the depth to cover glaring deficiencies in the team once a few guys fell away or didn’t come up.

So, until this week I thought this season was a step in the right direction. Lyon gave the old-stagers due respect and a chance to show they were still up for it, most weren’t up to it, he pivoted towards playing the kids and we were largely competitive and won more games than the previous season. To me that’s a successful transition period, and set up a decent base for next season when there would be further renewal, and the team would hopefully be knocking on the door to the finals.

Yet if you asked me whether Freo should sack Lyon yesterday, I probably would have said yes.

Bond and the Board favour stability – and why not, it’s a very self-serving position to take – but I can see the merit in insulating the coach from opinions like mine that can turn on 3 hours of football. Fans (and Board) sentiment can change week to week, but you don’t want a rebuilding coach to be coaching week-to-week, or even year-to-year, so I can see the merit in a longer contract. But 5 years was always way too long. A coach needs to have some skin in the game.

I bumped into Polly on that funereal train yesterday, and while bumping into Polly is a rare pleasure, the best I could do yesterday was mumble a few words about the last time I was this disappointed, being Neesham’s last game in 1998. I was a Freo fan because of Neesham, and hoped the players would send him off in style. They didn’t. We got belted by Port, and a few weeks later Drum was appointed.

That didn’t go very well. It’s worth remembering that.
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Flag_2005, pollyanna, Lazza040, Rhufus, Trizzie said You Beaut

blockerhall Coach 6 years 8 months ago #101

blockerhall
It's a well-made point. I don't trust this board or football management with the next coaching appointment.
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Bizkit, okeedokee, Rhufus said You Beaut

Drubbing Coach 6 years 8 months ago #102

Drubbing
Morgan, my opinion isn't so fickle as to turn on 3 hours of football. I've given it 3 years or more...

The supporters opinions who do turn from one game to the next, simply aren't worth listening to, and no one would.

Through the last few years Lyon has been given security, but so has Rosich and Bond, and the assistant duds he hired from Hawthorn. A rebuild that only involves players is simplistic and ignores clear deficiencies that are taken on the field by players.
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PurpleMom said You Beaut

Morgan Coach 6 years 8 months ago #103

Morgan
To be fair Drubbing, I wouldn't say your opinion on Lyon changes from week to week. I think it would be closer to the truth to say in your book Lyon's card was marked halfway through his first season with Freo (if not before).

But football Boards can be skittish entities. The fans always call for scalps after heavy losses, and the media loves nothing more than a 'sack the coach' pile on, because it's the easiest story to write and it doesn't require any knowledge or analysis.

I said a while back that part of the problem with the Board and Bond giving Lyon a 5 year deal was that they couldn't sack him without admitting their own failure. In reality, they aren't going to sack him for at least 12 months, if for no other reason than to save their own skins.
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shane Coach 6 years 8 months ago #104

shane
The trick to all that is knowing when it's just loud noises and when something needs to be done. Abandoning a rebuild process halfway through because things are going slowly is stupid but getting stuck 4 years into a rebuild that's failing is a disaster for a football club. Luckily we have a board full of people with long history of football adminis...

Oh, no.
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Blue1red1 Coach 6 years 8 months ago #105

Blue1red1
On reflection of all this, I would like to think while sacking the coach is not an option due to what ever contract he is on,
Why don't we send him to Peel to rediscover his desire to Coach at a senior AFL Level and deliver on the effort required. Give him some feedback like his players get and demand some improvement.
Let's give some of the younger boys a go at coaching and get some games into them.
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okeedokee, captdazza, PurpleMom, Rhufus, Burton said You Beaut

Raglan Matt Coach 6 years 8 months ago #106

Raglan Matt
Your comment Morgan,

I said a while back that part of the problem with the Board and Bond giving Lyon a 5 year deal was that they couldn't sack him without admitting their own failure. In reality, they aren't going to sack him for at least 12 months, if for no other reason than to save their own skins.

Extrapolating on that, if the problem starts with Bond and the Board, (which in my humble opinion it does) how the hell do we get rid of them? I would be quite prepared to risk the baby throwing that lot of bathwater out.
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Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

pollyanna Coach 6 years 8 months ago #107

pollyanna
We don't, there's only one voting member and that's the WAFC. Ironic, but they're also focussed on their own skins at the moment.
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The_Yeti said You Beaut

exceed Coach 6 years 8 months ago #108

exceed
You always get commentators in the crowd that vote for nothing , never call to action explain away all mistakes .
This is not new or just recent. Our first 2 games , Adelaide , Brisbane.
The eagles move on one of their legends in Pridis ( just after announcing a contract extension),. Ruthless football to one of their dearest own.
You know what he ( pridis) took it with grace and they ruthlessly go forward.
We have been waiting for 20 years and yet no grandfinal win. Year after year of rebuilds/ bad recruiting , injuries blah , blah , blah excuses.
I don't mind losing in a rebuild but something stinks rotten when you get belted as bad as we have this year and last year. The rot started way back thru the middle of 2015 , when we only won 4 of our last 9 games.
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R.Lyon Coach 6 years 8 months ago #109

R.Lyon
The average age for Freo on the weekend was 23.6 years while tigers were 24.4 years. The other post during this tread was showing the average age of both full lists. Anyway I still think this is year 1 in a rebuild not the second season. We cleaned out the list last year and started
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wingman Coach 6 years 8 months ago #110

wingman
They play like they train..badly. Go watch them. Usual supects fumble, miskick, drop marks. Pretty simple stuff but coaching staff just say give effort because skill isn't important. I'll throw up if I hear that word "EFFORT" used much more down that place by coaches and players alike.
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Corporal Agarn, Rhufus said You Beaut

cletus Coach 6 years 8 months ago #111

cletus
Streuth!!!... I've just spent my lunchtime reading through this thread. !! Geez its gone places!!

Whats it going to be like next week after a third drubbing?? - and dont think that that is not a very real prospect!

Just want to remind everyone the words Roly said at the start of the year :

"We’re aiming high this year, but we all signed off on a four-year rebuild last year - really restump, rewire, replumb - and that hasn’t changed from list manager, president, ceo, coach, football operations manager and our leadership group."

Now...switch the R words to "tanking"... and are we really surprised at where we are at??? Everyone has bought into it, he was telling us in 'code'.

Tell me that isnt what we are seeing.??? Why are we so surprised at our "end of year"???

Having said that, I'm going to turn my "optimistic switch" off, and confide that what really worries me is the complete objection to change things gameplan-wise, and, the complete lack of improvement in skills.

One would like to think that we'd be seeing some improvements/ changes in all these things...but we simply aren't.

Interesting that the murmurs at Collingwood suggest most of the assistants are going. I'd suggest I'd like to hear a bit of that us.

When Hale, Guerra and Rock turned up, things started going very south from there....
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slammen, Raglan Matt, purplepower, Corporal Agarn, R.Lyon said You Beaut

rogerrocks Coach 6 years 8 months ago #112

rogerrocks
On average age. This is a silly statistic. Players peak around 26 - 28. So really we should look at a mean squared deviation from 27, with the lowest score being the best. But I'm not going to do that because I can't figure out how to easily get the raw data.

And Drubbing, I can still hear Drubbing after the prelim win over Sydney going, "Lyon can't coach, he's just lucky he's got such great players. This is ugly footy and I'm not enjoying watching it", or something like that.

Lyon is, if you like, being "crazy brave". He no longer has the good list he inherited, so he's making one from scratch. And that gives us the results we are getting. Nobody enjoys getting thumped, but Lyon is no shrinking violet. He sees this is his chance to truly mould a footy team, and he's going all or nothing. He asked for and got a 5 year deal because he knows its a big task and it won't be pretty along the way. Maybe he has overreached. Maybe he hasn't got what it takes. But he's giving it a go, and it really is too early to say it won't work (but don't let that stop you saying it).
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