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TOPIC: Work rate

Jezza Work rate 6 years 7 months ago #85

Jezza
Home Games
Year
2017 32191
2016 34557
2015 39830
2014 39523
2013 37692
2012 36724

To support the bandwagonning theory further, the crowd numbers suggests that when Roly first waltzed in and in the years to follow until our fall from grace, the purple army grew significantly whilst his boring gameplan was still at the forefront. In 2016, we were getting chopped up yet home game attendances was still commendable. The numbers in 2017 with one home game to go, is still encouraging but I suspect not entirely due to the coaches shite gameplan or the players inability to adapt. Crowd numbers has a direct correlation to success but the true fans will pay their money for better or for worse.
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docbert, jimb2, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

RideoftheVagaries Work rate 6 years 7 months ago #86

RideoftheVagaries
Agarn to me crowd numbers aren't really that relevant. But I don't think what Bizkit provided is anywhere near definitive evidence that crowds are falling beyond what might be expected in the depths of winter when playing finals is out of reach and there's a whole bunch of new faces in the side (and the small sample includes a game against GC).

Freo have played some pretty exciting footy this year in patches. For me the biggest issue this year is the inability to play four quarter footy, which is classic young side stuff. When we've been flogged we've been blown away early (again lots of kids 101) and generally if are within earshot at quarter time we continue to be a chance late in the game.
;p
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rogerrocks, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

jimb2 Work rate 6 years 7 months ago #87

jimb2
I figure we have another two years of solid bitching in front of us at this stage. And then some.

The list is clearly deficient, we have a bunch of hopeful young players who may or may not make consistent top level afl players, and by the time they have, key players like Jonno and Mundey will be gone.

Even if this weird fantasy that a management change will somehow cause us to rise out of the mud were actually correct the club has committed to Ross and the rebuild. It won't happen overnight. And that means players who can't execute the game plan on the park for a while.
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jimb2 Work rate 6 years 7 months ago #88

jimb2
I attended every Dockers home match in 2001. Halfway through the year we'd lost every match and I thought our next win would have to be an away match because the crowd mood was so down at home games. This proved true: our first win was round 18 against the Hawks at Docklands. No one expected us to win.

The team had some good names, Pavlich, Hasleby, Bell, Fletcher, Modra, Fletcher, Cookie, Dion Woods, McManus but there was not enough quality there to really be competitive with top teams. I have some good memories of those games. There was a solid core of actual supporters at those games.

We actually played - and lost - our first finals game two years later but this was a one off. We didn't play finals two years in a row until the Lyon era.
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Rat Work rate 6 years 7 months ago #89

Rat
Yes he came in at a good time . our team was just ready to go .
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Corporal Agarn Work rate 6 years 7 months ago #90

Corporal Agarn
Yes Jimb2, who could forget those days. I think the difference was that we knew we were bad then and there was a genuine underdog, we're all in this together type of feeling. We slowly built and became fun to watch.

This time around we were were promised sustained success. When success arrived we were excited and genuinely thought our time had come and was fully deserved.

To fall away so quickly and so badly has been difficult to take and people are justifiably angry and want answers. We thought we're on our way to becoming a consistent powerhouse like Sydney, Hawthorn, Geelong or Slime.

You can't make these bold statements which end up being hollow promises and nobody is held accountable. In fact the opposite has happened. After all the chest beating and trumpeting about how good we will be, we now hear nothing.
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Derby12 Work rate 6 years 7 months ago #91

Derby12
Put simply - if you build a brand around success, which is defined as winning, then you suffer when you have any lengthy periods of non-performance.

If you build a club, rather than a brand, around a set of shared core values and expectations, then the on field story can be less determinative of crowd and membership. It's a far more enduring structure. Good an bad become part of the history, the struggle and the (possibly epic) journey to the eventual ultimate success.

But if you are a snake oil salesman selling instant success, which can apparently be bought and sold overnight, and in doing so, you disenfranchise core supporters and destroy the club narrative, then you have very little to fall back on when the going gets tough.

It's made even more bitter by the fact that the AFL has shown - with GWS - that you can buy instant success. But you need far more $$ than we have access to, and even with that chequebook, and benefits, success is not guaranteed (witness Gold Coast). But watch the GWS fall in a heap when they eventually have their doldrums. Because they have been sold a product, not a club, and they - justifiably - will only have supporters while they deliver that product.

That's where we are right now.

Watch the numbers decline even more over the next 12 months. Whether you agree with the corporatisation and branding regime of the current administration, you have to ask whether they should have done a bit of research into our list age and makeup a few years ago before making the promises they made - which look pretty hollow in hindsight.
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blockerhall, Bizkit, rogerrocks, Corporal Agarn, Rat said You Beaut

Raglan Matt Work rate 6 years 7 months ago #92

Raglan Matt
We lack one thing, a genuine power forward. We either recruit one, or Fyfe could be that player but Bond and Roly seem afraid to play him there ( for a season). Given that player, Cammac/Tabs/Kersten get a lot more freedom, and do the job they did at GWS/Cats/Peel. Walters and the other small forwards get a better crack at the fall of the ball, the mids have a target that they can't miss, and the opposition have to do more than plonk a spare man back.

We have replacements for Mundy and Johnno, and Darcy looks as if he can take up the slack when Sandi slows down, so the big worries of the last few years are not so grim now. All we need is that 1 player.
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jimb2 Work rate 6 years 7 months ago #93

jimb2
This is what I don't get. Are you going to feel happy if someone gets punished? Do you really believe that if someone gets suitably punished that it somehow won't happen again? That seems like magical thinking to me. It belongs in the dark ages or the old testament or somewhere like that.

Anyone who thinks that an AFL team, even a so-called "powerhouse", can stay at the top of the table indefinitely is nuts. It's a competition and a fairly open one. Everyone is trying to get to the top. Clubs go up and down. Hawthorn might be described as a powerhouse but ask a Hawthorn supporter about their crap years, eg the decade prior to 2008.

If you want the opposite of a powerhouse club, ie, a shithouse club, chaos and dummy-spits are the way to go. According to some of the people here a management style you might find at a suburban kids team is going result in a decade of premierships. I think not.
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rogerrocks said You Beaut

Flag_2005 Work rate 6 years 7 months ago #94

Flag_2005
I'm not convinced about the brand v club comparison. Collingwood and Richmond are clubs rather than brands and, whilst I haven't done the research, I venture to suggest that their membership numbers and crowd attendees wax and wane with the success of the club on the field.

If by 'sustained success' the powers that be meant playing in finals every season then, sure, we've been duped. But you couldn't seriously believe we can play finals every year the way the competition is structured. Sydney do it but they do it with salary cap concessions, trade tampering and academy selections that give them an unfair advantage in the draft (all for the good of the game apparently).

A power forward would make a massive difference to where we are currently at (whilst not the best going around I would be looking at Levi Casboult to take the pressure off McCarthy and Kersten) and you can't underestimate the impact of Luke McPharlin retiring and Alex Pearce being unavailable for the last 2 seasons.
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rogerrocks said You Beaut

Morgan Work rate 6 years 7 months ago #95

Morgan
‘Sustained success’ was a nonsense mission statement foisted upon the club by the slimy (formerly) Eagles-loving advertising guy that was our former President for some reason. There’s a reason said advertising guy didn’t use ‘continuous success’, because that’s impossible. Sustained means ‘continuing for an extended period’ so by that actual definition playing 9 finals in 4 years probably counts as sustained success.

Most people on here are smart enough not to buy into such advertising puffery, yet they still deploy it when convenient to whack Lyon and Bond around the head for losing footy games. It’s malarkey. It’s the equivalent of someone buying Lynx deodorant and being mad they don’t pick up every time they leave the house. In defence of the Lynx-buyers, most of them are teenage boys, who are objectively nature’s biggest idiots.

The bloke who wore that mantra like cheap deodorant is gone. Good riddance. The phrase, like Lynx deodorant, hangs around like bad smell. Hopefully the sea breeze will rid the club of it soon (assuming the sea breeze makes it to Cockburn occasionally).

So long as there is a draft and salary cap that dictates the flow of talent, footy for most middling clubs like Freo will continue to operate on a boom/bust cycle. ‘Sustained success’, if it means anything at all (and I’m doubtful), is about sustaining the booms to try and snag a Premiership, and reducing the duration of the bust years and making savvy football decisions that will set you up in the future.

We’re one off-season into a rebuild. On the last rebuild we missed the finals for three years. Using that metric, Bond and Lyon have at least next season to bugger around in a wins-and-losses sense before being held to account in 2019. What they should be held to in the present is the way they get talent through the door and on the park.

On that front the signs are moderately positive. Decisions like flipping pick #3 for what became Logue, McCarthy and Hamling are more important than present big losses to the premiership favourite. Getting games into the young guys – which Lyon has done – is also more important. Seeing what guys can do in other roles is also useful. I couldn’t discern a game style under Harvey in 2009 when we were getting flogged, so I think the concern in that respect is premature in the current stage of the rebuild.

I think the club is generally doing the right things in a footy sense, and should be held to the standard Harvey and his cohort were in 2008, not the standard set by an advertising guy grandstanding for the Financial Review.
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jimb2, rogerrocks, DJKL, Raglan Matt, Quiexo said You Beaut

purplepower Work rate 6 years 7 months ago #96

purplepower
That's how the job market goes it's about performing and if you don't someone else gets a crack at it.........is not about punishing it's about accountability .......lets not forget last year after 6 or 7 rounds Ross declared that " we got the preseason wrong and there wasn't any quick fix"....well after that only the players payd the price while the manegment and the coaches kept their jobs....
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DazzElle, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

blockerhall Work rate 6 years 7 months ago #97

blockerhall
If this management was held to the same standard as Harvey anyone but Ross would be coaching us. A drover's dog would have got that squad to finals when Ross did- we completely burned that window- the guy is a charlatan, and our board was and is more than happy to be sucked in by the cult of Ross, and all subsequent decisions are in lockstep to cover up the truth. He ain't that good. His football sucks. He plays favourites. And he will never kick enough goals with his redundant gameplan- I would prefer he coached West Coast.

Might as well start canvassing for who our next coach will be now. The answer is not Ross, it is anyone but Ross.
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Bizkit, pollyanna, DazzElle, themagoos said You Beaut

moodindigo Work rate 6 years 7 months ago #98

moodindigo
Wait ... the Slime are a powerhouse? Take out the two free pass State team flags and the asterisk one which no-one takes seriously anymore and what have they ever done? Finished sixth a few times?
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut