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TOPIC: Urgent new coach needed

purplepower Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #99

purplepower
That's one of the reason why clubs pay coaches 1 million dollars Mac.....
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pollyanna Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #100

pollyanna
I've never seen a footy player out-run a ball in the air when it's kicked. On Saturday night I saw at least two of our players try it every time Hawthorn kicked it from one player to another. While many may pat our players on the back for their endeavour trying to beat the ball in the air, I just feel sad at the stupidity of their attempt. That's just stupid football - well done for being knackered at the end of the game, top marks for effort, but...
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The_Yeti, cletus, DazzElle said You Beaut

mac Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #101

mac
Ross Lyon would be a better coach if he had Buddy, JK, in the team.
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shane Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #102

shane
Would Buddy Franklin be a better player if he were coached by Ross Lyon?
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cletus, Derby12, purplepower said You Beaut

The_Yeti Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #103

The_Yeti
I could just as easily say that Taberner would be a better player if he was coached by Clarkson.

I would also have doubts about how good Kennedy would be under Lyon as the game plan would allow him to be isolated to gain marks in the forward 50. He would be too busy running backwards to compete against defenders. He would also have to grow about 3 feet to mark all those balls going over his head

That and we would be be playing a congested only style and getting carved up by better teams with better skills and a better game plan.
Egurls Suck!
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Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

Jooter Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #104

Jooter
One of the joys of listening to the Slime lose football games are the feral supporters that ring into 6PR to voice their opinions. After yesterday's loss to Collingwood, the gist of the calls run somthing along the lines of 'sack Simpson and his crew' and replace him with Sumich, who is now touted as being the only available coach out there with some level 4 coaching qualification.

So, the Slime supporters say get Sumich.

Surely if you don't have Ross Lyon, who would you get? Sumich? A lot of talk here disses on the current coach, but seriously, I want names: Who would be a viable (i.e., uncontracted, not pie-in-the-sky option, like a Clarkson or a Beveridge) coach, if not Ross Lyon?
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rogerrocks said You Beaut

RideoftheVagaries Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #105

RideoftheVagaries
There's some pretty tangential and esoteric ideas in the "what-ifs" realm with would "they be better under someone else".

I think we all have an inkling as to what side your bread is buttered as far a Taberner goes Yeti, but he hasn't done too badly under Lyon, given he's a rookie pick and played around 34 games between 2015 and 2016, and you'd at least vouch for him coming on as a player. Would it be further if he was under someone else? Maybe, but that's some sort of quagmire of hypotheticals and fairy dust that just invite our preconceptions to make concrete.

I mean Brad Hill's a better player this year than his last couple of season, is that the Lyon influence over the Clarkson one? Too simplistic? Exactly.
;p
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Bevdon Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #106

Bevdon
One of the biggest roles of a coach is motivation. A poor coach who has the undying support of his players where they will flog their guts out for him will achieve more than a coach who may be clever and strategically sound if their is not that high moral.

I recently had a couple of long conversations with an ex Freo defender who I had a great deal of respect for. He was more than a solid contributor and I asked him why his performance dropped and then he either quit or was delisted, after Ross came and he said that as a strategist Ross was the best coach he had played under (Harvey and Connelly) but that he has very bad people skills. This means that many of the players don't like him or his methods. He plays favourites which causes ill will between players.

This is not good for Freo. I am so sorry they gave him a 4 year extension. I was a West Coast supporter until Malthouse went so defensive that they were boring. Neesham may have only one a quarter or two in a game but they were exciting. Ross Lyon is a boring as sh...t.
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Patient Docker said You Beaut

The_Yeti Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #107

The_Yeti
ROTV,

That was exactly my point in response to the comment about Lyon being a better coach if he had Buddy and JK. You can say all this stuff all day but its inherently meaningless.

As for Tabs, you misunderstand again. I've never claimed he was a world beater. I've often said he isn't a Pav or Reiwoldt and shouldn't be judged for not being that, which is his big problem.

He's a reasonably mobile 200 cm bloke with a decent tank and an accurate kick but instead of using what we have to our best advantage we complain about what he isn't. So, even though we lack height, strength and accuracy up forward and he can supply a bit of all of that, lets leave him at Peel because he isn't hitting KPIs that Roly cannot or will not identify

You know what they say about poor workers blaming their tools.

I think Tabs has played his last game for us but will do better under another coach that is able to use his assets rather than trying to fit guys into a limited framework
Egurls Suck!
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Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

Morgan Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #108

Morgan
Anyone who thinks modern AFL footy is simple is kidding themselves. There are 36 people running all over a huge field, 18 of which on the other team behave differently every week. So the notion the coach can easily install a system – like loading software – is a furphy. You need to get talented players on the park, and teach them over time to consistently make good decisions, to learn to read a game and react together so that your 18 moving parts collectively work more efficiently than the other team’s 18 moving parts. If your 18 moving parts have superior talent, well that helps a lot.

There is no doubt Freo’s play is discombobulated. But AFL footy is so complicated now that for fans bad teams become a Rorschach test – perceptions of the cause of that bad play are shaped heavily by preconceived ideas of who is at fault. I generally consider that coaches get too much credit when teams win, and too much blame when teams lose. So I accept that shapes my perception of what I’m seeing. But I’m not sure what I’m seeing is a failure of coaching. Most don’t like Lyon. Fair enough, but I think that shapes how people are assessing his role in the rebuild.

I’ve said it before, I consider AFL footy is a weak-link sport. You need to string a number of possessions though a number of players together in order to score. The less the players work together, and the more weak links you have, the worse you are going to play. Each goal is the product of any number of micro-decisions: where to tap it down, how to approach the ball, when to sag off for a handball, when to tackle, where to lead, when to put on a block, how much weight on the kick. You need your players to collectively make those decisions correctly and in unison.

In that regard, talent matters, coaching matters but so does repetition and cohesion. Our team has no cohesion. A third of our team has less than a season of playing together and the lack of continuity shows. We just can’t string enough correct micro-decisions together and we don’t have enough talent to overcome that.

How many times have you seen two Freo players fly for the same mark this season? To me that points more to a lack of shared experience and cohesion than a failure of coaching. A coach could tell two defenders not to fly for the same mark, but he really shouldn’t need to, and in any event both players need to make a correct decision in a split second. They’re not at the moment, because they just haven’t got enough repetitions in game situations to know what their teammate is doing. To me that is happening all over the field. To expect the coach to eradicate that midway through a rebuilding season seems unrealistic to me.

The place this shows up most is the forward line. Hawthorn was much more efficient than Freo, but let’s take a look at the respect forward lines:

F: Shoenmakers Roughead Langford
HF: Breust Gunston Smith

F: Kersten McCarthy Walters
HF Weller Ballantyne Nyhuis

Three things were apparent on Saturday. Hawthorn had more talent in the forward line, more height, and they were better organised. Looking at those forward lines, is there any surprise? Not only do the Hawks have better forwards, they are a unit that has been pretty much intact for half a decade. Ours is a cobbled together unit of mismatched pieces. You could say we’d be better balanced with Tabs instead of Kersten, but arguing about the 22nd man picked is deckchairs stuff.

We’re one off-season into a rebuild. I know the disdain for Lyon is strong. Not only does he miss out on the goodwill of an incoming coach, he carries the baggage years at the helm (and his time at St Kilda). But I think it’s too early to blame him for the lack of cohesion we can all see.
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docbert, goodie, jimb2, cookie, rogerrocks, Flag_2005, Noddy, Tropical said You Beaut

RideoftheVagaries Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #109

RideoftheVagaries
I don't think I've misjudged anything there. The point I was making is that Taberner has developed, while it's in no way clear as to whether that's absolutely optimal or not, coming off a rookies list, getting to 50 games ain't a bad achievement.

I agree on the hypothetical re having other players playing in the team, but there is often the accepted idiom that players make the coach. And really we all can be pretty certain that with a bonafide A grade FF or CHF would make a wee bit of a difference to the side (also I'd like to see the W/L ratio for when we've had both Pav & McPharlin playing together).
;p
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cletus Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #110

cletus
You say footy is a "weak link " sport Morgan. I would agree, but extend that to all team sports. "Only as strong as your weakest link etc etc"

So, if so, surely the aim of any coach is to make a game plan as 'efficient' as possible. I.e. use as few as links as possible, to avoid the possibility that one of those 'links' will let you down.

Show me where any evidence of this occurring with the Freo gamestyle since RoLy came along. ??

This is our point.

The game plan relies on creating a "fustercluck" when its down in the back half; hopefully create a turnover via extreme pressure; extract it from the congestion via 'pinball machine handballs'; then kick it sideways or backwards till we eventually get a man free with it on the other side of the ground, where, hopefully, he has a bit of open space to carry or hold the ball!

Then, hopefully, the 17 blokes in the back half who were just responsible creating the fustercluck, have got to sprint forward in time enough for the ball carrier to find at least one target midfield or centrehalf forward, who, if successful, can kick it sideways or back, while we wait for more players to run into and position themselves in the forward line. !!

(I'm reluctant to talk about our forward line because I don't like talking about things that are imaginary. )

Point is, our game style / ball movement, is as far away from being efficient, ( or, avoiding "weak link footy") as it possibly can be.

And RoLy has done absolutely nothing to change that. He could make tweaks, at least, to make it more efficient, but he won't.

That's the problem!
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The_Yeti, DazzElle, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

rogerrocks Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #111

rogerrocks
I assume that Roly knows what he needs to have the foundations of a winning team. Right now, he's trying players out to see if they can do the jobs he needs. Hence the comment about Tabs. It wasn't demeaning, he was just saying he knows what he's going to get with Tabs. He's probably told Tabs what he needs to offer if he wants a regular gig. This is also why he's happy to let players go. Just because they can't do the role he wants doesn't mean the player won't be able to do what some other coach wants.

So Roly is as frustrated as us, but just a bit smarter. I think he's also exhausting to work with (and maybe to play for). Anyway, I'll back him to produce the nucleus of a good team over the next two seasons, provided he's still willing to learn.
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Dockermus Urgent new coach needed 6 years 9 months ago #112

Dockermus
Unlike some other AFL clubs who have serious retention problems, young players seem to want to stay at Fremantle. Maybe they see more upside to the coach and his methods than a number of supporters are currently feeling.

Langdon

Tabs is also reported as saying he wants to stay.
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Corporal Agarn said You Beaut