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TOPIC: List Deficiencies

hypen List Deficiencies 6 years 9 months ago #1

hypen
In terms of players who can hold down spots for the next few years where are our gaps on our playing list? I did a bit of analysis in my Monday morning team meeting and its quite significant.

I wont share just yet. Does anyone want to share where they see the gaps on our list at present? Think age of current key players andvwhat we have at Peel.
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shane List Deficiencies 6 years 9 months ago #2

shane
Based on what we've got and what we're trying to do with it, we need more tall running players.
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goodie said You Beaut

cletus List Deficiencies 6 years 9 months ago #3

cletus
Immediately, one would say "Tall Marking Forward"....but the problem is, if we were to get a couple of those, I'm pretty sure RoLY wouldn't use them properly. He seems adamant that a forward line is not important, so it would be a complete waste of a draft pick picking a tall forward.

But we are going to need a ready made CHB pretty quickly, and we are going to need a little goalsneak promptly. I don't think we have another goalsneak option on the list??

Other than that, given Hodor's surprise development, I wouldn't have thought the list was too shabby?

We probably have replacements for Mundy coming through (Blakely +), there's probably a spare winger if one of the Hills go down (Balic?), Can't say A. Pearce is an immediate replacement for Johnno but he's thereabouts, and really, a half forward flanker with a fair bit of grunt about him (A Stevie J type) is about all you could ask for.
Obviously, we need another Ruckman, even if Z Clarke gets up and gets fit. But if Sandi is about, and Hodor proves durable, then the need is probably not as great as it was 6 weeks ago.

For me, (and most of this is obvious) Dawson, Sheriden, Suban, Griffen, Clarke, D Pearce, Sutcliffe, Apeness & Ibbo and Collins all go. For some of them its a bit harsh..but its reality.

There's 10 of them, and they all cant go at once and obviously contracts will keep a couple of them here (ie D Pearce till 2018...why??). Some of them - ( Ibbo, Collins and Suban because hes a heart & soul player) - probably get a 1 yr contract. But the others should be traded where possible, or de-listed if not.

Mundy gets a yr contract, as does Johnno if he wants it. Crozier is about the only potentially tradeable asset that you could put up with giving up. Someone else back in Melbourne might part with something to get him, otherwise. Maybe the same could be said for Taberner, but I reckon he's worth another year.

But we need high draft picks, so the lower the ladder position this year, the better. Whilst those picks should be spent on tall forward/ruckman types, I'm uncertain they'd ever meet their potential with the current coaching group.

I don't think our list is our greatest problem now that we've seen what a few of the young blokes have to offer. Its the game plan that needs the tinkering....and that's about dealing with the bloke at the top.
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The_Yeti, Corporal Agarn, Rhufus said You Beaut

goodie List Deficiencies 6 years 9 months ago #4

goodie
The backline will need looking at. Johnson and Spurr look nearly done and the game has passed Sutcliffe and Ibbotson by. Hamling and Pearce are the long term options but Hamling looks serviceable at best, although he has got better as the season progresses. Blakely has been a revelation off half back. Logue is a work in progress.

Need- a tall backman and a medium sized defender like Neville Jetta. It is imperative they are great kicks because our ability to work the ball from kick ins to past the defensive fifty has plagued us for years.

Up forward we have needed a full forward like no other club has for twenty years. They don't grow on trees but we don't even seem to try to recruit them. Taberner has to play every game till the end of the year. It should determine whether he gets another year contract. Ballantyne is finished so we need another small forward. I would be desperately trying to get Matera from Gold Coast. He has finally come good this year. We could do with two small forwards now that Walters is a midfielder. Kersten isn't as bad as often portrayed here but he isn't the answer either.

Need- a full forward and two small forwards.

The midfield looks good for a while yet overall our team lack kicking skills.
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Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

demo1 List Deficiencies 6 years 9 months ago #5

demo1
Lets go to the WAFL..
I reckon theres a few guys at South Freo that could solve some problems.
Hayden Schloithe is twice the player he was when he was on our list.
He is a jet now and would light up our forward line not to mention replace Ballas as the AFLs most hated player!
Tim Kelly is a star and could fill in numerous running roles.
Ben Saunders would look good in our forward line and actually kick goals as would Blaine Johnson.

Liam Ryan from Subi would give our forward line another dimension.He is a must get.
Taryce Stewart from SD has unlimited potential in the Charlie Cameron mould.
Alex Howard from SD would fill a mid sized defender role. Better all round player than Lee Spurr IMO..
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goodie, hypen, Rhufus said You Beaut

Davo List Deficiencies 6 years 9 months ago #6

Davo
How about giving 3 x 50 metre penalties away for 2 easy goals. Or is this the umpires's problem, not ours.
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hypen List Deficiencies 6 years 9 months ago #7

hypen
I think we have enough talls when fit to fill key positions, save for centre half back. Their quality will become evident over time.

We are in desperate need of a ruck man to assist Darcy. Not an 18 year old but a competitive experienced ruck man. If that is not Griffen ok fine, then take the call and cut him. And cut Clarke.

Do you think Mayne and Ballantyne in their prime would have let the Eagles run the ball out at will? We need some defensive forwards. We don't have an obvious replacement on our list for Ballantyne.

Johnson and Mundy have limited time in the game. Blakely who is playing back will go into the midfield when Mundy retires. I just don't see enough really good kicks who can create time and space with their skills and decision making on our list. There's Tucker and Weller who look really good but you need more that two. I think the long term backline is Tucker, Weller and Hamling and I don't know who else at this point.

So there is a fair bit of work to do in this draft and we don't have a second round pick. A little glass half empty at present.
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Derby12 said You Beaut

frankmac List Deficiencies 6 years 9 months ago #8

frankmac
I think Cox is your long term CHB.

He is going to be a gun.
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purple mao, Rhufus said You Beaut

Morgan List Deficiencies 6 years 9 months ago #9

Morgan
Hypen

First, I’d like to formally record my disappointment at being excluded from this morning’s team meeting. Granted, yeti and I spent the entire last match committee meeting arguing about whether to order scones or muffins from catering, but I feel that we are getting closer on that issue, and in another four or five years might reach some sort of compromise position.

I’ve given some thought to your question, and have put together what to me looks like a plausible 2018 line-up. I’ve excluded players over 30 on the basis that yours is a list question rather than a selection question, but realistically a couple of old blokes would make the Round 1 team. Still, I think it shows our gaps.

2018 (under 30) Line-up


B: Luke Ryan, Joel Hamling, Ryan Nyhuis
HB: Griffin Logue, Alex Pearce, Connor Blakely
C: Stephen Hill, Lachie Neale, Bradley Hill
HF: Lachie Weller, Cam McCarthy, Hayden Crozier
FF: Michael Walters, Matt Taberner, Darcy Tucker
Foll: Sean Darcy, Nat Fyfe, Harley Bennell
Bench: Harley Balic, Ed Langdon, Brennan Cox, Brady Grey

The midfield is strong and entering their prime. Between Fyfe, Blakely and Neale we have enough ball-winning. If Bennell is fit, we have enough outside run between the Hills, Bennell and Weller. Hodor looks the goods as a long-term ruckman, but our ruck stocks aren’t looking great beyond 2018 when Sandi retires.

In the forward line Walters is a star and our small forwards are pretty handy. McCarthy shapes to be really good mid-sized forward, with Kirsten a decent back-up. It’s painfully obvious we’re missing a tall forward who can take a mark (or at least provide a target). Neither Tabs or Apeness have come on to make the spot their own, and there doesn’t look like a ready-made alternative.

Our backline looks a bit shaky. We need a fast lock-down backman who can also kick. There’s not many of those around, so we’d need to find a balance among a number of players. Hamling and A Pearce could form a pretty good KPP combo I reckon, but there has to be a question mark over Pearce’s capacity to play out a season, so we might need Cox to step up. Logue is still really young, but he’s a bit of a liability at the moment. We’re really asking a lot of guys like Ryan, Nyhuis and Hughes who all look likely, but are all rookie / late draft selections.

I think that team on paper is handy, but not great. Certainly it’s a fair step down in quality from the 2013 GF team. I’m not sure how much improvement is in the young blokes, but a few would need to step up mightily if we’re any shot next season.
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cletus, Derby12, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

Rhufus List Deficiencies 6 years 9 months ago #10

Rhufus
We`re a shot at playing finals next year. Not at the GF.
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cletus List Deficiencies 6 years 9 months ago #11

cletus
Morgan...thats a great effort...but I take exception to the comparison you've made to the 2013 GF team. Your 2018 team needs to be compared to something like the 2010, 2011 team. Ie a team at about the same stage of development. 2 or 3 years before a GF.

Don't know if someone has time to list Morgans team vs the 2010-ish team, but I think the 2018 one might stand up ok....??

Obviously, the older team has Sandy-Pav-Mcpharlin-Johnson & and young Hill, Fyfe & Ballantyne 'close to prime', and a unit like that is definitely not present in 2018, but, in 2019, if things go well - Hodor -Mcarthy-Cox-Hambling-Pearce + Fyfe, Benell, B Hill, Walters & Neale, would put 2011.(..and maybe 2013) , in the shade I reckon....
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Raglan Matt List Deficiencies 6 years 9 months ago #12

Raglan Matt
Some of you blokes amaze me, you smash the coach for having no, or a dumb, game plan with one breath. Then with your next breath you say our game plan should be to lose as many games as we can to get draft picks with which we pick the wrong players anyway!!! At least RoLy and Bond are consistent.
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timmeh, Flag_2005, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

Morgan List Deficiencies 6 years 9 months ago #13

Morgan
2010 Round 1 Team

B: Silvagni, Tarrant, Ibbotson
HG: Broughton, McPharlin, Hayden
C: Morabito, Mundy, McPhee
HF: Johnson, Pavlich, Hill
F: van Berlo, Mayne, Ballantyne
FOLL: Sandilands, Barlow, Duffield
I/C: Headland, Suban, Hasleby, Crowley
EMG: Schammer, Dodd, Bradley

Pav, Mundy and Sandi all at the height of their powers and named to the AA Squad. A young Fyfe would make his debut a bit later in the season. Grover and a young Walters also on the list but not named until later in the season.

Fair to say that 2010 team had some pretty handy players.
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cletus said You Beaut

Derby12 List Deficiencies 6 years 9 months ago #14

Derby12
Think Morgan and Hypen's post are valid. Everyone is talking about the need for tall forwards, but you'd have to ask whether we would actually use them in proper capacity, so that whole area up front is a bit hard to project towards.

No-one - not even mayne and ballas in their prime - can stop teams running the ball out of defence when they are marking it, and/or they can can handball and kick to several free players. You can't run faster than a chain of kicks and handballs. Their closing speed and pressure were only ever effective when we had options downfield closed down and forced indecision and hesitation from the defenders. We also have no-one bringing the ball to ground, so a lot of the negativity towards Ballas is pretty harsh in my opinion.

But the big one that we are overlooking is running, rebounding defenders. Yards gained from half back - kicking skills need to be solid but not necessarily elite. Decision making would be more important. Weller brings some of that, but we need another quick player in the Johannisen mould.

And two more tall defenders. Collins is slightly undersized, and with Johnno gone, that leaves Pearce & Logue. We need one more quality tall bare minimum, even if Logue comes on and Pearce stays fit, to back up for injury, but also because 3 talls, given Logue's athleticism, should be part of our ideal structure. Problem is, given Pearce's time out and Logue's age, drafting another one to that position leaves us with an incredibly inexperienced backline, which you'd think would be 2-3 years away from being a premiership defensive unit. You'd basically sell the farm to get Rance. Or May. or even an Aliir Aliir. The worrying thing is this still relies on Logue improving significantly (which I think will happen) and Pearce getting and staying fit (which is very much a lottery at this point). If we can't get someone like that through trade, drafting a mature tall backman from WAFL or state league would make a lot sense.
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