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TOPIC: Too late for Lachie

Morgan Too late for Lachie 6 years 11 months ago #15

Morgan
Jumper punches only ever result in wrestling or more jumper punches. It's handbags stuff.

If Lachie Neale actually threw a proper haymaker at Cotchin in retaliation, after getting getting over their shock, most would probably insisted he receive a three week ban and a public service award.
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shane Too late for Lachie 6 years 11 months ago #16

shane
Can you throw a haymaker from that height?
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

Raglan Matt Too late for Lachie 6 years 11 months ago #17

Raglan Matt
Yeah, thought that would be your answer Morgan. I reckon it would be better to stop the problem at the source, but the AwFL would miss out on $1000's in fines that players can afford to pay every week if it did that.
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Blue1red1 Too late for Lachie 6 years 11 months ago #18

Blue1red1
You can Shane, it's just youd get a $1000 fine for hitting him in the jewels AKA TAB's Style.
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shane Too late for Lachie 6 years 11 months ago #19

shane
Not if you grab them by the shorts first.
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darthmarto Too late for Lachie 6 years 11 months ago #20

darthmarto
Does that make them boxer shorts?

I'll show myself out ...
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thegeniusthatis Too late for Lachie 6 years 11 months ago #21

thegeniusthatis
So, Morgan, professional boxers only throw haymakers to hurt the opponent? What a crock. As I said, if Cotchin had jumper punched you or I we wouldn't be shrugging it off. It is more than possible for a professional athlete who lifts weights to hurt someone with a short jab to the face. Perhaps yourself and Lachie lift weights differently, working on those jaw muscles instead; weighted handbags would be ideal for such a purpose.
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Morgan Too late for Lachie 6 years 11 months ago #22

Morgan
I've got a very nice powder-blue turtleneck that I'm sure Cotchin would like to get hold of, but other than that he wouldn't have much cause to have hold of my jumper. Which is why using regular folk as an example falls down.

AFL footy puts 36 highly competitive and aggressive men on a field where they commit acts of violence that are sanctioned and encouraged. Some acts are banned. Sometimes in the course of a match players get tangled up, and in the thrust of pushing and pulling a jumper hit a bloke with a close fist. The force of which is limited partially by the limited backswing one can muster with a jumper in hand.

The AFL has gone with a 'duty of care' approach with suspensions, meaning there are medical reports given and if Cotchin broke Neale's jaw he'd be out for weeks. But he didn't, so the MRP had to guess how hard Neale got hit. The MRP said it was only enough for a fine. I reckon it's a little soft, but not outrageous.

The AFL has taken on board that it got it marginally wrong and has said it will pivot accordingly.

I just don't see what the big deal is.

And for the record, if Cotchin has ever lifted a weight I assume it was to put it back in the rack to keep the gym tidy.
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freoboy49 Too late for Lachie 6 years 11 months ago #23

freoboy49
Like many politicians, public service and corporate bureaucrats, the knee-jerk response to a controversial issue is to bring in a new law to give the impression that you're on top of the problem.
Mandatory sentencing is a classic example of attempting to satisfy the baying masses, at a time when the term 'judge' implies a discretion to make a decision based on the circumstances (e.g. severity of the offence in comparison with other convictions for that offence).
So the AFL prescribes the penalty to apply to jumper and midriff punches, removing the discretion of the MRP to make a judgment based on the circumstances. Before this appear to be too much on the MRP's side, let me hasten to add that the MRP has a reputation for quite discretionary interpretations of 'intentional', 'careless' etc.
It was ludicrous to suggest that because Cotchin was not looking at our Lachie that he really didn't mean to hit him ... what tosh.
The MRP's real problem IMO is that their application of the grading criteria is inconsistent and, dare I say it, a bit partial towards some players (or players from certain south-east continental regions).
A few years ago, Nathan Fyfe was suspended in the early rounds because of an interpretation that went the way of all flesh within weeks of his penalty and then in 2015, there were somersaults to make sure he didn't get suspended when he was reported. He should have two Brownlow Medals.
Finally, it is hard to believe that the MRP is not unduly influenced by the media attention (starting from telecast day) given to certain incidents. Like our grizzles re umpiring, all we supporters want is consistency and predictability in their decisions. Sadly lacking.
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thegeniusthatis Too late for Lachie 6 years 11 months ago #24

thegeniusthatis
I don't think I agree with very much of that response, Morgan.
I am struggling to work out why, if I were on a football field, being not overly solid or athletic that if Cotchin jumper punched me that I wouldn't be quite shaken by it. Also, he is an athlete and despite appearing on the smallish side given the size of the players, I was surprised by how solid he was, certainly more so than Lachie.
As it stands, yes the AFL sanctions two teams to hit each other hard, but not in the head or face, despite it happening incidentally. There was nothing incidental in Cotchin's hit, Lachie was shaken by it, and a fine is pittance in the scheme of things.
Whether you think it is a big deal or not doesn't take away from the fact that it should not have happened or been condoned by both umpire and a rather bemused MRP. Retrospective action is not possible, but if the AFL were serious in wanting mums to let their kids play this game they have seriously stuffed up by not making the head sacrosanct.
We have seen Freo players rubbed out for far less: Johnno for having a fat arse; Fyfe for an accidental head clash; Ballas for tummy taps; Bogan Josh for going the Mitchell on Gablett; and even Creepy was fined (I believe more than Cotchin) for allegedly pinching an angry dwarf 300 times.
We have even had opposition players openly praised for hitting Ballas.
Yet it takes a Melbourne boy to get winded and chuck up for the belated response. A punch is a punch, jumper or not and deserves to be punished. In that respect Fyfe probably should have been rubbed out; the one and only difference being umpire blindness allowing hold after hold. Still, the boy should have known better and found a way out.
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jimb2 Too late for Lachie 6 years 11 months ago #25

jimb2
If fishing is a sport, I'm an athlete, but that doesn't mean I can take a punch in the head.
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Morgan Too late for Lachie 6 years 11 months ago #26

Morgan
I mostly agree freoboy49. Before the grading criteria was introduced the tribunal was wildly subjective and capricious. The grading criteria is not perfect, but at least in reined it in a little. The current system also meant that players, QC’s, biomechanics experts and AFL staff didn’t need to spend hours every week at hearings.

But often it’s still line-ball when deciding whether someone’s action was careless or deliberate, or the impact was low or medium. People on here have argued at length that Hayden Ballantyne’s actions in snotting a bloke weren’t deliberate, yet can categorically state that Trent Cotchin – the Clark Kent of football – deliberately snotted Neale while looking the other direction in a bit of push and shove. It’s still a subjective process, and always will be.

Most people say that ‘all they want is consistency’; well on that score the current MRP has been the most consistent yet. In Cotchin’s case, they couldn’t be sure Cotchin’s hit was deliberate (I reckon on the balance of probabilities it was), and they didn’t know how much it hurt Neale (there was no blood, he finished the game well, wasn’t assessed for concussion), so they gave the lowest possible grade rather than rub a bloke out for a week. That has been how the MRP has consistently approached their role this year. I quite like it.

There’s probably 20 years of data that suggests the worst injury from a jumper punch or tummy tap is a blood lip or being winded for 5 minutes, so I can see why the MRP (being made up of former players) is inclined to lean more towards a fine than a suspension as a penalty; while saving the heavier suspensions for blokes hitting players with their head over the ball, or swinging their arms wildly in marking contests.

But the non-playing public have spoken, and as shane alludes to we’ll see the AFL swing too far the other way. I dare say we’ll likely see more inconsistency, and possibly more players milking the hits in an attempt to ensure other players get suspended. Will we see fewer tummy taps and jumper punches? Maybe, but we’ve seen them pretty consistently in previous years when there was a suspension, so I guess we’ll see.
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Raglan Matt Too late for Lachie 6 years 11 months ago #27

Raglan Matt
2 points Morgan,
i) The MRP did not give Cotchin the penalty he deserved, and the next week a slew of players go for the jumper punch, a Victorian gets winded and throws up last nights pizza, all of a sudden it is a problem. Suspend Cotchin, players get the message, no messy spewing all over the ground next week. Simple to everyone but you and the MRP.

ii) The MRP don't consistently suspend blokes for hitting players with their head over the ball. Go back through Dockerland and you will get evidence of that, and that is just 1 club. Again I am not trying to say it only happens to Freo, but I am saying it happens.
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Morgan Too late for Lachie 6 years 11 months ago #28

Morgan
i) when Michael Walters misses a final because when flying the flag for his teammate his jumper ruffling accidently turns into a glancing blow, people will be complaining that the MRP has been too harsh is assessing the conduct as deliberate and medium impact.

ii) I never said the MRP was consistent in ‘head over the ball’ incidents. There are too many variables to satisfy everyone on every decision. I just said they save the tougher penalties for the truly dangerous acts. The AFL is terrified of concussions, which is why it treats sling tackles more harshly than rib-tickers. A sling tackle is less scorn worthy than a cheap jab to the guts (one is a football play, the other isn’t), but no-one’s long-term quality of life has been affected by a rib-tickler.
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