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Deliberate out of bounds

TOPIC: Deliberate out of bounds

Raglan Matt Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 day ago #29

Raglan Matt
If Kersten had of lobbed the ball in the goalsquare, and it bounced sideways to run out of bounds 4-5 mt around from the point post the clowns with whistles would probably still have paid deliberate, and no-one besides Freo supporters will say anything.

Just wait til it happens to Geelong or Bulldogs or Swans. The outpouring of condemnation from the media will get Trump off the front pages. Once again the bias of the AwFL and the media is on show.
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Morgan Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 day ago #30

Morgan
If you watch the replay, you might see the following:

Kersten gets the ball 10 seconds after a centre bounce when every Freo player was behind the ball. There's no way he could even make the argument he was kicking to a Freo player as they knew they were all behind him.

If he was trying to kick a 70m goal, he didn't wind up like it. To me it looks like a chip shot to the pocket.

Had his kick gone straight it would have missed the goals by even more. As it was, the ball actually curved towards the goals, and still missed by 10m.

So, I reckon the call was available to the umpire. Again, I'm not sure it's the right one, but not out of the question either.

Having a rule based on intention is rubbish, but consider the 'bright line' alternatives. On the one hand, you get rid of deliberate out of bounds, and watch teams kick for touch or handball over the line whenever they are threatened. You reckon 'Rolyball' was dire, imagine if teams could just work their way up the sideline for stoppage after stoppage of 30 players. Rugby anyone?

The other extreme is the last touch rule. I actually don't mind that idea, but it would be a nightmare to interpret and then you'd have teams actually shepherding the ball out.

So, the AFL has gone with something in the middle, and tried to get the balance right. It creates problems, but perhaps it is better than the alternatives.

www.fremantlefc.com.au/video/2017-04-15/...tes-rd-4-v-melbourne
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Raglan Matt Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 day ago #31

Raglan Matt
See post "No. 23" Morgan, their was a Freo player within 2 metres of the 2 Demons running back with the flight of the ball, the ball did travel from a line 22ish metres wide of the centerline of the ground to within 9-10 metres of that centerline, and over half that distance was while the ball was in the air. If it "drifted with the breeze" are you in anyway sure that Kersten did not allow for that breeze??

Kennedy's reasoning and observations of where the ball was kicked from and landed are flawed, as a perusal of the video will show. As you say deliberately forcing the ball out by going direct to the line is not good for the "fans and advertisers" but the umpires cant even pay this on more than 50% of the time so to pull a free like that in the last minute of the game is farcical at best and corrupt at worst, or somewhere in between.
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Morgan Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 day ago #32

Morgan
I thought you said the umps weren't to consider the stage of the game?

It was probably a 40/60 wrong call, but umps get calls wrong all the time - even the ones where the rule is black and white. As Hayden 'I Look Like a Frightened Rabbit' Kennedy says, there is a lot for the ump to consider with that particular call. I reckon that's why that particular call is so easily swayed by the baying of the crowd.

So, what would you suggest is the alternative? The players used to get the benefit of the doubt, but the reality is that there is always some doubt on these calls, and players became adept at providing just enough doubt, even though it was usually pretty obvious what their intentions were. Now if it's pretty obvious it's a free kick. That means the odd poor decision will be made, as opposed to a bunch of poor non-decisions.
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snoop Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 day ago #33

snoop
I reckon get rid of rules where the decision is not black-and-white (apart from tackling/HTB, etc).

If the ball goes out, give the other team a free kick. If you're not sure who touched it last, go to the replay.

Obviously means no more boundary throw-ins. And umpires don't need to guess what a players intent was.
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FDB Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 day ago #34

FDB
Personally I don't think he was kicking for touch - I reckon he expected it to pull up short of the line, and give Freo time to get down there and make a contest. When your aim is to kill time like that, having it go out and getting pinged for DOOB is just an occupational hazard.

Just like it was for me, when I was a gigging muso.
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shane Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 day ago #35

shane
This is what it was like when they were coming up with the original rules

What do we do when the ball goes out?
Throw it back in.

This is what it's like now

What do we do when the ball goes out?
Well, first we have to decide on what we mean when we use the term "out". I'll form a sub-committee and we'll draw up a draft set of guidelines, taking into account the vagaries of the dimensions of grounds around Australia, the varying levels of pressure in the footballs at alternative times throughout the match and, of course, consultations with the various stakeholders.

After the committee has signed off on the guidelines we will run a trial in rounds 6 & 11. Pending the results of those trials we will modify the interpretation of the term "out" to make sure umpires are efficiently able to make consisted adjudications on what we mean when we say "the ball was out".

And then..wait...what was the question again?
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Suker Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 day ago #36

Suker
Considering the rule and interpretation, when are we going to see the ball simply kicked as high as possible into the air, with some forward momentum, like in rugby, enabling your own players to have more time to get to that contested ball once the ball nears ground level. This would appear to have been a better choice for Kersten...keeping the ball in play but at least giving your own guys a chance to get to that contest and force a stoppage or even a shot at goal. Gone are the days of the clever kick up the line hoping to get it out.
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shane Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 day ago #37

shane
The next logical phase is that the ball will go out but they won't stop play if the player made a reasonable attempt to keep it in.
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Morgan Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 day ago #38

Morgan
So Shane, do you think the AFL made a mistake preventing teams from killing the contest by putting the ball out of bounds deliberately? Or do you just have a problem with the process?

I agree they should make the rule simpler. I'd be inclined with something like the following:

If you kick it out, free kick against.
If you handball it out, free kick against.
If the ball is jarred out, spoiled out, or you are tackled / taken pushed over the line in a tackle, then throw it back in.
If it's not obvious who it came off, throw it back in.

But there would probably be all sorts of unintended consequences of that sort of rule change, so the question remains whether a change to the rules, or getting rid of the rule is better than a rule that leads to an occasional dodgy decision?
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snoop Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 day ago #39

snoop
shane, that scenario has already happened, was adjudged goal of the week.
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Raglan Matt Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 day ago #40

Raglan Matt
I said exactly that Morgan, we see those types of kick forward many many times in every game, they go OOB many times, and even when kicked on a 45 degree angle towards the boundary, SOME teams get away with it. My comment about it being farcical to ping Kersten in the last minute of the game was to emphasise the fact that umpires have spent the previous (almost) 2 hours considering that that is not a deliberate out of bounds. WHY change in the last minute of the game, and why do we see this type of decision against Freo so often???

And surely, going by Victorian media reports, the baying of the crowd should have swayed the umpire to NOT pay deliberate out of bounds, if he is that easily influenced.
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Raglan Matt Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 day ago #41

Raglan Matt
Here is what to do RoLy

thewest.com.au/sport/basketball/thats-un...ferees-ng-b88449538z
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cletus Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 day ago #42

cletus
Morgan...you are killing me!! ..!
Why dont we just leave the bloody game alone...!??
If, as you suggest, Kersten was wrong to kick it because every one was behind him, then the game is truely buggered.!!
Next thing someone will want an offside rule for Gawd's sake.!!
Or a net/wall around the outside so the bloody ball cant go out, and its play on all the time...
What a great game it'd be then. !!
Simply put, the umpire was a fool for calling it; the umpires coach was wrong to ever give the guy the idea that it should be called; and the bloody rules committee should intervene and correct the wrongs it created. Immediately!
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