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Deliberate out of bounds

TOPIC: Deliberate out of bounds

Morgan Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 week ago #15

Morgan
The clever play was for Kersten to kick the ball over the line. That was perculiar to that situation (ie, minute to go in a close game) and so other instances aren't a good comparison.

The ump knew the state of the game and assumed Kersten had that in mind. Not sure if he did, but that's the problem with a rule that requires intent.

Probably was marginally the wrong call, but not the worst decision of the day.
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jimb2, rogerrocks said You Beaut

Raglan Matt Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 week ago #16

Raglan Matt
So if he accidently kicks a goal while trying to deliberately kick it out of bounds, whats your decision. How can you say he deliberately tried to kick it out of bounds? I also recall the AwFL saying that the time remaining in the game should have NO bearing on how the laws of the game are interpreted, so yes all those other decisions or non decisions are valid comparisons, whether in the 1st minute of the game or the last. Consistency of the application of the rules is all Freo wants. We DO NOT get that and it shows on a weekly basis.
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cletus, rogerrocks, slammen, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

Raglan Matt Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 week ago #17

Raglan Matt
So Pointless, if Kersten "deliberately" kicked a point what happens? Is it a deliberate rushed behind under no pressure, no score to count, and a free kick to Freo? Is it a deliberate rushed behind under no pressure, no score to count, and a free to Melbourne? (and where is that free taken?) Or do the AwFL just award the game to Melbourne because Freo are cheating again?
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rogerrocks said You Beaut

Stacksonthemill Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 week ago #18

Stacksonthemill
While we have a rules committee, we have to have rule changes. Solution: get rid of the rules committee. If some really detrimental development should begin to affect the quality of this great game, and coaches can't find a tactical solution, then maybe a committee could then be formed, comprised of the coaches, and they could come up with a fair and equitable solution.
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Wedge Antilles Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 week ago #19

Wedge Antilles
Kicks forward like Kersten's open up the game and are exciting. They are the antithesis of the deliberate out of bounds designed to bottle things up because there isn't a safe option. It should not be a free by default.
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Alvin Prpl, Raglan Matt said You Beaut

Docker by the Sea Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 week ago #20

Docker by the Sea
100% agree with you RM, there was no intent by Kersten to put this ball out of bounds.
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slammen said You Beaut

Dockerplus Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 week ago #21

Dockerplus
There are a number of variants for umpires to pay free kicks when the ball goes out bounds:
i. The kick out of bounds on the the full is pretty simple to officiate
ii. The kick in after a point and no other player touches the ball before it goes out of bounds - also pretty simple to officiate
iii. When a ruck man hits the ball out of bounds on the full - happened to Sandi recently
iv. The deliberate out of bounds is where the umpires have to make a decision on the intention of the player kicking the footy. The word "deliberate" makes the decision open to interpretation. Why is a free kick awarded? For the time being wasted? Is the purpose of the game to keep the footy inside the boundary line at all costs? What about when the ball is punched out of bounds on the full or bounces out after its been punched towards the boundary line? That is probably the most deliberate of all actions on the ball being sent out of bounds. Why is that not considered worthy of a free kick?
I only go to the games I don't make up the rules but I find them at times confusing.
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The_Yeti Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 week ago #22

The_Yeti
Naaah, Dockerplus,

the rules are generally clear and straight forward. The interpretations however often verge on the bizarre. and are generally confusing. Even the AFL doesn't follow the laws of the game, it follows their interpretations and they seem to change on a weekly basis
Egurls Suck!
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snoop Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 week ago #23

snoop
The deliberate out-of-bounds rule requires the umpire to assess what the player was thinking when they took an action. Did the ball go out of bounds because the player decided to put it there, did they shank a kick, did a tackler take them over the line**. Similarly for the deliberate rushed behind rule.

These are the worst rules in football. Why would you ask the umpire to adjudicate based on what they reckoned the player was thinking? Apart from tackling (always a judgement call) rules should be black-and-white. It's should be either "the ball went out, toss it in", or "the ball went out, free kick to the other team". Can't have both.

With the benefit of a couple of beers and no research, I can confidently say no other code asks umpires to adjudicate like our sport does. It's silly.

**If someone tackles a player with the ball and puts them over the line, should they be penalised for deliberate out of bounds?
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Raglan Matt Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 week ago #24

Raglan Matt
Snoop, your last point leads into the most deliberate out of bounds of all, a player being tackled forcing his way over the line, in the tackle, so he doesn't get a holding the ball or incorrect disposal call against him. Nick Suban is the only player who ever seems to have this paid against him.
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jimbo62 Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 week ago #25

jimbo62
I'm fairly sure that the big point we are missing is that it is no longer a "Deliberate Out Of Bounds" rule, it is now
"player must make every attempt to keep ball live" rule. Then it is left to the umpire to decide his intent.
I think Kersten was probably penalised correctly, but where I see the inconsistancy is when a player ushers a ball out of bounds off an oppositions kick and tries to claim a free kick, in my opinion they are not doing eveything to keep that ball live and should be penalised.
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blockerhall said You Beaut

cletus Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 week ago #26

cletus
Well...from all the above comments, it is obvious that its a completely discretionary rule, and for that reason it is completely and utterly silly, and open to contempt and confusion.
A 65 m kick towards the general vicinity of goal should be encouraged, not discouraged, and only 'grandstanders' like Stevic and Razor Ray are gonna slant their discretion towards "nup, there was no way that 65m kick towards goal was anything other than a kick for the boundary line".
It's ridiculous, and if " make every attempt to keep the ball in play" is actually in place and evoked, then surely every contested mark that is spoiled by a fist to the boundary line is due to be penalized. (Which is why "The Fist" is actually more redundant than he actually is...!) Kicking down the line to a contested mark on the boundary line is also redundant ( Nice knowing you RoLy...!) And yet, countless number of times over this weekend's game, it was a ploy used by every team.

And, yet, a kick towards ones own goal is penalized?? Its simply stupefying!!

Nearly as stupid as the inconsistent "hip and shoulder" rulings at the tribunal. Just getting ridiculous, and it is destroying the game. Why the AwFL would like to create more confusion for players and spectators alike, is beyond me, and the only lot that think all this carp is 'fair and reasonable', are the "footballing intelligientsia" who like their academic, and leftest compatriots, have no idea what the "real world" is actually like.!!
The footballing doyens that actually sit on these rules committees and come up with these things, must surely be fed a lot of beer and cake, because surely they wouldn't have put up with a lot of this rot when they were playing...??

Players have split seconds to make decisions, and it must be bloody near impossible to play the game now, with the "slide in" rule, the 'don't duck rule", "the keep the ball in play", and the corroboration that the very simple "no third man up" rule has become.
That's why going to watch a bit of local footy is a more than enjoyable experience these days.
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Dockerplus, rogerrocks, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

prefect Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 week ago #27

prefect
Yeah, it was a ridiculous call. And especially suspicious at that point in the game.
In any deliberate out of bounds call, the umpire is trying to determine intent as a component. Unless they profess to be psychic, then in any is it/isn't it calls you have to give the benefit of doubt to the player with the ball. He kicked it in the general direction of the goals. End of story.
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Alvin Prpl, slammen said You Beaut

jimb2 Deliberate out of bounds 7 years 1 week ago #28

jimb2
The question is: Did he kick the ball up the line not to a player but aiming to cross the line, or, did he screw up a shot on goal? A shot on goal is ok, a kick forward to no one is out. The rule was never intended to stop shots on goal.

I think he screwed up a shot on goal under some serious pressure so the free was wrong, but I must admit it's a close call. IIRC there were three Demons around him and no Dockers. If the ball crossed the line ten or twenty metres further away from goal it's a clear free.

Since Melbourne can play on immediately after a behind, getting it across the line is a better option than a behind if it can be done without giving a kick away. A goal is obviously best.
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