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TOPIC: Rolyball

pollyanna Rolyball 7 years 7 months ago #15

pollyanna
Nup, not even close - three champions (no doubt), but you've pointed out only 1 ruck, 1 big midfielder and one tall defender (Harley and Luke weren't even in the game this year). In my books that shouldn't stop you from playing to win. Substitute names (if you want), the picture becomes pretty clear.
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Bizkit said You Beaut

Corporal Agarn Rolyball 7 years 7 months ago #16

Corporal Agarn
Sorry Flag but there is no way you can put four names up against that massive list. Johnson hasn't played a full season for ages and Bennell hasn't played for two years, so they were always risky and as for McPharlin's retirement well that's footy life.
Players retire every year. If you can't replace them then your recruiting staff aren't doing their job. What was he supposed to do keep playing for another few years? We still don't have a decent replacement for Pav, so he better keep playing too?
Having said that A Pearce was a loss, but in reality he has only played approx 20 games. So can't expect too much yet.

Our depth was tested and found wanting. Theirs obviously wasn't.
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Burton said You Beaut

Docker by the Sea Rolyball 7 years 7 months ago #17

Docker by the Sea
Watching Dale Morris Talk show this morning he spoke about the team getting belief.
Sure we lost some players this year but in 2013 we were without Sandi and Pav for a big chunk and produced good footy. Last year we were top of the ladder, I know a lot of people will say it is BS but there is a massive mental component to what has happened this year.
I think this accounts for why teams are able to cover for lost personnel, 22 players giving 100% effort for 100% of the time with confidence that it will be rewarded. I am not convinced that we had that this year. We seemed to be able to muster it at times but it fell off quickly if not rewarded on the score board.
Bizkit there seems to be merit in your comments about confidence to attack when we get possession, I haven't heard about those training incidents but sounds plausible. Listening to Menegola speak on the different cultures at different clubs sounds like there may be more freedom for individuality at Geelong.
It seems to me that Lyon has some work to do to get the players back onboard and the playing group also needs to find the want to give that effort. The common denominator of all the teams winning finals has been their willingness and ability to give 100% to every contest. This may be physically demanding and hard to maintain over a full season or seasons but it is what wins football games. The Bulldogs have buy in from everybody and they are the "no excuses" football club at the moment.
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Down on down Rolyball 7 years 7 months ago #18

Down on down
Polly the difference was that we were 0-5 when we lost to Carlton, the Bulldogs at that same juncture were 4-1. There is a world of difference between the two scenarios. Our confidence was already shot to pieces, even with the best will in the world we couldn't have salvaged anything out of the season. Our game plan was non-existent, our coach befuddled, and the players clearly lacking confidence and skills.

I admire the Bulldogs for the tremendous fighting spirit they demonstrated in the space of the adversity they have faced on the injury front. But the major difference between our two clubs was the the fact Bulldogs had a clearly defined game plan that everyone bought into and it remained steadfast throughout, no matter what circumstances were thrown up before them. I only wish we could have achieved the same.
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Drubbing Rolyball 7 years 7 months ago #19

Drubbing
With big out, the dogs clearly had better 2nd tier players, or they wouldn't have made a GF.
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Bizkit Rolyball 7 years 7 months ago #20

Bizkit
The Dogs wiped the floor with basically our full strength side at the start of the year and proved RL tactics were a thing of the past. RL never looked like even getting close to amending those tactics to compete with the better sides in the comp like the Dogs, GWS and Crows over the course of this season. I don't see how we magically change that over the pre-season with fewer decent players so things don't look good for an improvement up the ladder.

Polly's not wrong though, we didn't need to throw our season away at round 5, changing to a different tact would have gotten us a lot further not just this season but next as well. I'm worried RL doesn't have it in him though.

I'm interested to hear what Morgan's thought's on RL's abilities from here are. From what you've seen is RL able to change and develop the kids we have and a completely different game plan that will compete at AFL level?
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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Rhufus said You Beaut

ChewyBoot Rolyball 7 years 7 months ago #21

ChewyBoot
I was listening to Sumich before the game today and he was asked about how Peel would set up their defence.

I know he's out of the club now, but he was saying that they they would want to transition the ball would be the the same way they're taught at Fremantle.

That is, as he explained, and the pattern seemed recognisable as soon as he mentioned it, was to move the ball with the defenders setting up with a C, or a horseshoe (not horsesh*t) shape by getting on the outside of their opponents. Then moving the ball down the ground before coming inboard.

Its probably something that's not unique to Fremantle but I worry if its a major tactic, that its too predictable and maybe outdated. We've obviously been too poorly skilled with our kicks, so we haven't been able to do this successfully, especially evident with the number of shots on goal we concede from turnovers before the ball gets forward of centre.

I liked what Langdon did a couple of times today in the WAFL grand final. Received the ball at half back, but has got a bit of pace to get 5-10 metres on his opponent by taking him on and opening up some space forward of the play.
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rogerrocks Rolyball 7 years 7 months ago #22

rogerrocks
I was listening to one of the doggies talking about Beveridge. About how he encouraged players to improve. About how they didn't do "kick and hope" when under pressure in defence, but backed themselves to handpass until things opened up. And how when players made mistakes trying to execute the game plan, there wasn't much focus on it. They knew they'd stuffed up, but that wasn't as important as following the plan.

And the best example of this was in the dying seconds where Stringer could have had a shot for goal (a la Motlop for Geelong against Hawthorn), but instead kicked to a player 25 m out. They mark, and 30 seconds can be wasted. Had he shot for goals and got a point, GWS would have 25 seconds to take the ball end to end to tie things up. Their game plan is so well imprinted, its what they do, even under great pressure.

Roly, well, maybe he's working on a new game plan, but early in the season he was frustrated that the players weren't executing it. He kind of blamed the coaching staff for coming up with a plan the players couldn't reliably execute, but I couldn't help feel that he was blaming the players a bit. And as I've mentioned before, certain players under Roly have developed a worrying lack of confidence. This year Ibbo springs to mind. Last year it was Duffield. Its not that they can't play, its just that they no longer seem to have the confidence to take the game on.

In short, Roly needs to have a good look at himself. Without ruining his own confidence, of course...
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Docker by the Sea, Burton said You Beaut

Morgan Rolyball 7 years 7 months ago #23

Morgan
There's a chance that Roly is a one-trick pony. But before this season he has been relatively successful, so I can understand if he has been reluctant to change too much. In previous seasons I reckon he has said the right things about trying to score more and move the ball quickly. So, I think at the very least he's always understood the limitations of his game plan or our players ability to execute it.

I agree with other posters that we lack run, dash and skills out of defence. But even this season, if you look at Roly's moves like playing Hill and Mundy off halfback (with limited success), and then Crozier there (to better effect), those look to me to be attempts to address that.

I also think we have some personnel limitations in defence. Spurr and Ibbo are great (well, Ibbo is great every second year) but they don't give you much run, carry or flair. Dawson and SCOS are both bad with ball in hand. I can see why Roly has tried Sheridan there because as least he can run a bit, but his kicking actually dropped off badly this year. Personally, I would put D Pearce back because I think his field kicking is much better when he's hitting 30m targets than when he is bombing it long (most disagree with that), and at least he takes the game on, but I'm not sure if his defence is up to it.

But it is one thing to understand limitations, and another to address them. I have no idea whether Roly can draw up a new game plan, or develop a younger list. I guess we'll find out. I hope he can, but I'm not confident.
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DocDocker, Bizkit said You Beaut

Raglan Matt Rolyball 7 years 7 months ago #24

Raglan Matt
Looking back over the past few seasons, it seems RoLy is better at coaching and managing his assistant coaches than the players, and maybe this is what C Bond should be concentrating on. Getting the best possible ass coaches, not worrying so much about the best possible KPF, KPD and ruckmen.
With Scott, Kirk and co in the box, we went well. Are the present crop to scared to say anything, or are they just not as smart as the fellas they replaced? Make RoLy the manager of coaching and get some good young brains in there.
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rogerrocks said You Beaut

jimb2 Rolyball 7 years 6 months ago #25

jimb2
Just like our players, we need to get some experience into our assistant coaches at this stage. It's a synergy thing, isn't it? Recruiting the best assistant coaches is going to be like recruiting the best players. It's hard. If they are creaming it where they are they are unlikely to want to buy into a list like our on the other side of the country. The issue is the same as the playing list: what direction are they heading, and how fast?

Roast goat is tasty, but eating all your kids now might not be the way forward.
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