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TOPIC: Bad players or Bad team

bpurple Bad players or Bad team 7 years 8 months ago #29

bpurple
Totally agree WTB, start with those players looking for a change that have currency and keep going from there. Target good players wanting to come back to WA like Lobb, and get the deal done. I see him as important because he replaces Sandilands and can kick goals. This is as important as getting good young talent in the draft, we have and will lose a lot of experience very soon and need to top up in that area.
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Bizkit Bad players or Bad team 7 years 8 months ago #30

Bizkit
Your timeline has a lot of holes DK and your own opinions opposed to anything fact based. 2011 was more injury cursed to not just the midfield but the entire squad than this season and yet we finished much higher on the ladder and the coach wasn't afforded the benefit of the doubt despite outstanding results the previous season.

I still don't believe the beltings we received at the start of this year had anything to do with injuries or much of a change in game plan. The game plan had shown plenty of holes in previous seasons (especially the second half of 2015) and was falling further to the wayside this year as RL has few if any answers.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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DockerKnockers Bad players or Bad team 7 years 8 months ago #31

DockerKnockers
Freo won 5 of their last 9 matches last year.
As I have previously detailed, the four losses included;
a thrashing by Port when Freo sent their B Team.
a loss to Hawthorn, the eventual premiers in a Prelim (which included a stacked set of umpires and a Fyfe broken leg)
an 11 point loss in an away from home game against Norths (a top 4 finisher)
and a loss against the Slime (eventual Grand Finalist and again with biased umpiring)

Fyfe was not fully fit after his Mitchell cork in Round 15.
Gone to bigfooty where there's fewer Docker Haters.
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DockerKnockers Bad players or Bad team 7 years 8 months ago #32

DockerKnockers
It's funny how injuries can be used to explain 2011 but not 2016.
Gone to bigfooty where there's fewer Docker Haters.
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shane Bad players or Bad team 7 years 8 months ago #33

shane
In the last weeks of the 2011 season, the injury list was up around 23 players. It's currently 12.
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thegeniusthatis Bad players or Bad team 7 years 8 months ago #34

thegeniusthatis
My impression of Ross and Bond are that they were pretty untalented players who relied on hard work rather than being blessed with skill. They seem to look for these qualities in players - mediocre blokes who run all day and try really hard. Someone on the inside told me the board didn't want Fyfe with that pick 21, instead preferring Bastinac. Smart overruled them all. As a result we have what we have, poor list management, poor recruiters, average recruits - although Blakely, Weller, Langdon, Balic, Tucker could all be good if playing in stronger team with the likes of Johnson, Barlow, Fyfe, Walters, Sandilands, Bennell, Neale and Hill. We need experience in defence, the middle and up forward. One bloke can make a difference. It also helps to have consecutive games with the core of those players available: a midfield with Sandi, Neale, Mundy, Fyfe, Hill, Barlow all running through it hasn't been seen for the vast majority of this year. A forward line with Walters, Bennell and Yarran looks good too, but to compensate for injuries Walters has had to go into the midfield, and Yarran has played five games, Bennell zero.
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Bizkit Bad players or Bad team 7 years 8 months ago #35

Bizkit
Did you catch any of those games we 'won' in the second half of last season? We were horrible. We structured poorly and looked to have no idea how to move the ball successfully from one position to another which has only gotten worse as time has passed.

As for 2011 we literally were checking with the AFL about what to do if we couldn't find 22 players to form a team. This season has been far better and even then we've been lucky for 3 wins. We've had something like 15+ players from our finals side last season available almost every week, this drop off is far from player based.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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thegeniusthatis Bad players or Bad team 7 years 8 months ago #36

thegeniusthatis
I don't disagree, but the players who have been out for the season are our most important playmakers: Johnson's importance cannot be underestimated, and certain players form has at points been embarrassing. For sure the lack of a Plan B has been devastating, but the lack of an effective Plan A in the first place - and Lyon's flat refusal to accept that changes on the field can mix things up, sometimes for the better (throwing Hunter forward was at least a strategy, of sorts), has meant that second stringers, despite the 15 Grand Final players availability (albeit pretty average footy players on the face of it, but with the addition of McPharlin, a three years younger Pav, Sandi, Johnson and Fyfe - you aren't talking shite players being out of the mix, if anything the five best players our club has ever had) have had to adapt and perform with skills they don't actually possess against teams who have got talent, height, strength and speed as they weren't rookie listers, mature age recruits, but instead the best young footballers in the country that everybody wanted but the AFL deemed had to be cherry-picked by some team they wanted deposited at the centre of theme park city or in the western suburbs of Sydney past fifteen bloody toll bridges. Add onto that our three highest draft picks have been squandered through bloody bad luck. 2013 we overachieved given the lack of depth in our squad.
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DockerKnockers Bad players or Bad team 7 years 8 months ago #37

DockerKnockers
A bit of selective memory to suit an agenda going on here.

Freo lost their last 7 games in 2011.
Apart from the last game in which Harvey gave a few of the youngsters on the list a run, the rest of those losses had about 5-7 players either under 22 or with 30 or less games. Those players included the likes of Mzungu, Zac Clarke, Roberton, Silvagni.
Freo played 40 players for the 2011 season. 2 of those were 1 gamers that Harvey gave a run to in the final game of the season (Bollenhagen and Sibosado). Freo have played 38 players so far this season. Ignoring those 2 one-gamers , in both 2011 and 2016 Freo have 14 players who have played less than 10 games for the season. But in 2016, those players include the likes of Apeness, de Boer, Sandilands, Johnson, Yarran, C.Pearce, Mzungu, Fyfe and A.Pearce (in 2011 the best names I can find are; Schammer, Walters, Griffin & Barlow).

Again, where is the logic in explaining 2011 poor performances as injury related, but 2016 as coach related.
Nevermind the continual references to problems last year when Freo ended up the minor premiers.
Gone to bigfooty where there's fewer Docker Haters.
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shane Bad players or Bad team 7 years 8 months ago #38

shane
Harvey didn't give a few of the youngsters on the list a run in the last game. He gave every fit player he could find a run. Some of them just happened to be young. They had to get permission from the AFL to play Casey Sibosado off the Rookie list, just so they could field a team.

The injury list has been quite bad in 2016 but not comparable in size to 2011.

The first half of 2011 they were looking at a comparable injury list to 2016, It was up at around 13 a month into the season. They still managed to win six of their first 11 games.
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guy smiley Bad players or Bad team 7 years 8 months ago #39

guy smiley
I don't think anyone's denying the fact that injuries devastated the team's chances this season, I think most of us understand that to have been a critical factor and the unavoidable injection of youth and inexperience has contributed... it's only fair to say that any team would struggle under those circumstances and that blow outs are common now when it does happen.

I do think the injury factor is being leapt upon to a certain extent to excuse the coaching though. The pattern has been apparent for a while, painfully so towards the end of last season. There's a rigid inflexibility to Roly's demeanour that borders on denial... or manic obsession with stonewalling the media and by extension, the fans. Then there's the admission that the preseason ... fercryinoutloud, they FORGOT to do fitness. I keep coming back to this... you can't come out and say something like that without looking like a right Priddis.

Injuries are a worry. There's been that many of them at Freo over the last 5 years or so that maybe we can reasonably include them as part of the player management structure and suggest, politely, that they've got it all wrong. Wronger than a convertible in July.
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Jezza Bad players or Bad team 7 years 8 months ago #40

Jezza
DK, a well articulated post. If people are going to compare 2011 and 2016, then let's not forget the coach who came in, in 2012, took the club to 4 consecutive finals, the best in the club history. The list was built in 2008, consisted mainly of rookie and mature age players, with the exceptions of Mora, Fyfe and Hill. Since Roly's appointment, there's a few more talented kids that given development time, will deliver. Already, we're seeing Neale, as a superstar. Throw in A. Pearce, Collins, Weller, Tucker, Blakely, Langdon, Balic, Apeness, and even Hughes. I have to also throw in Sheriden and Sutcliffe, both of whom have played in a GF. I see so much upside in Freo in the coming years, and having Roly at the helm, IMO, is a recipe for success.
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Drubbing Bad players or Bad team 7 years 8 months ago #41

Drubbing
We got a lot out of middle of the road players for the last 3-4 years, with a system. Now the system can't work, and the blokes are too old to run it out anyway.

Not only have we had injuries, but injuries to our core group. We have some big ins next year, and should pick up 1 or 2 very handy KPPs. But we have too many players on the list that can't progress us, and have to go, and unfortunately, unless players fall in their laps, I have zero confidence in the recruiters to fill the list with any half decent, or Lyon to coach.

Lyon usually gives nothing to the media, but his admissions he overlooked basic stuff in pre season is the dumbest thing I've heard. Even if it's just to deflect questions.

One of the 'best' coaches in the comp can't put together program that balances skills, strategy and fitness? That's the basic job description.
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teasea Bad players or Bad team 7 years 8 months ago #42

teasea
Or bad coaching? Think we definitely need better assistants especially with young players coming in and not sure older ones would appreciate being told what to do from the likes of Hale and Guerra who they probably played against and possibly beat. Noticed McPharlap is Specialist Coach at East Freo - young defenders and senior defenders would listen to him and he now has a bit of experience at it.
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