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TOPIC: 2016 Draft

DockerKnockers 2016 Draft 8 years 1 week ago #15

DockerKnockers
We don't need midfielder because if we 'add a fit 211, Fyfe, Mundy, Bennell ... Freo would most likely be around the 4-2 mark or better'.

But they are not fit are they Shane?
Freo has no depth to cover our midfield when we have injuries. That is the point. Likewise, we don't have depth in our KPPs when Johnno is out or Pav retires. My argument is the midfield is more important and you suffer more when you have injuries to the midfield. The results give evidence of that.
Gone to bigfooty where there's fewer Docker Haters.
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bozza 2016 Draft 8 years 1 week ago #16

bozza
What ever pick we get send to GWS for Rory Lobb. Another local kpp taken lower in the draft that we passed on.
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Morgan 2016 Draft 8 years 1 week ago #17

Morgan
Bozza, we had one pick in that draft before Lobb was taken, and we took Apeness. Would you have taken Lobb ahead of him?

I have no reason to think one will be better than the other, but it might be a fun game to get people to write off Apeness after two games.
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Raglan Matt, Drummy, DockerKnockers said You Beaut

Gumnut 2016 Draft 8 years 1 week ago #18

Gumnut
In defence of Shane's post I think we do have depth in the midfield however the real classy young midfielders who can kick to a target such as Weller, Langdon, Blakely, Tucker, Hughes, Grey and Crozier have not been exposed to AFL levels due to the presence of the likes of de Boer, Pearce(2) & Mzungu so as their experience grows we will see better performance.
It's worth noting also that we had the better of the clearances against the Crows despite our rucks being beaten on the day. Also as mentioned by one commentator last team we played Sandi had 59 hitouts against Jacobs so even in this game we could see a sign of things to come with the new midfield crop..
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bozza 2016 Draft 8 years 1 week ago #19

bozza
Fair point Morgan but yes I would of taken the West Aussie before the Vic if they had similar ratings. Would you swap a top 5 pick for Lobb? I would.
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shane 2016 Draft 8 years 1 week ago #20

shane
In defence of Shane's post, he was quoting DockerKnockers.

Presumably said midfielders will be fit by draft time, whereas Pavlich and McPharlin will be retired.
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The_Yeti, Bizkit, purplepower said You Beaut

Morgan 2016 Draft 8 years 1 week ago #21

Morgan
I don't think so. Lobb is more a ruckman / forward, which is I think how we will end up using Apeness. I'm not sure I'd ever use a top 5 pick for a ruckman. I also think that he benefits playing behind Mumford as a ruckman, and next to Cameron / Patton as a forward.

But it's early days, so I'm basically guessing.
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Bizkit 2016 Draft 8 years 1 week ago #22

Bizkit
The interchange cap decreases the importance of midfielders for a number of reasons. They are unable to get to the number of contests they were previously and impact the game as much, they can't fill up space and block/defend forward entries so flooding is more difficult (increasing KPP's ability to influence contest as well) and possibly most importantly as they tire they run less and throw the footy on the boot more which equals more marking contests.

As for our injury hit midfield, Fyfe has missed one game and Mundy three, the rest of our midfielders are all available all 6 games. Bennell is an addition to the midfield when he's back, not a loss in this scenario (when comparing why we've struggled of late and what is needed at the draft table). The early rounds last season when we played well we had our two best KPD and the results went our way. Once Johnno and Elvis were injured (Johnno in our first loss of the season to Richmond and Elvis towards the end of the season) we struggled so the 'data' would go against you in that instance.

30+ disposals is an arbitrary number you came up with and is not the be all and end all. Some teams like the Dogs, Hawks and GWS as they evolve are high possession teams and play high possession games (the Dogs averaging over 450 disposals per game this season). We have never been one of those teams playing in that style under RL and that isn't going to change any time soon. Well done on pointing out a bunch of kids who've played a handful of games haven't had 30+ disposals, I guess that means they are no good and need to be replaced at the draft table.

You can believe midfielders bring KPP's into the game but that doesn't make it a fact. Sure mids play a large role and I'm not arguing they don't but KPP's are just as important. They bring smalls into the game just as much as the reverse. There's a reason mids kick the ball to the KPP's opposed to the small forwards and KPP's cost so much more at the trade table.

Pointing out Cameron didn't pump the ball inside 50 is a useless statistic that I'm not going to research because I'm not an idiot and know that's not his role as he plays inside 50! Stevie J isn't playing in the midfield and I don't need to know how many touches he had to figure that one out when I can plainly see it. I am dismissive of your 'stats' when they are irrelevant. You mention Shaw as a midfielder but he gets 90% of his possessions sweeping around the backline playing the quarter back role racking up handball recieves yet you want to list him in your 'midfielders are far and away the most important and we need more despite the plethora we have already' debate.

In any case we have many, many mids coming through and almost all with plenty of youth. What we don't have are KPP's and certainly not many with a long future. It is what we need most.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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The_Yeti, shane, purplepower said You Beaut

blockerhall 2016 Draft 8 years 1 week ago #23

blockerhall
I think the point is that the game has changed significantly from the 2015 referenced, and the game as at now in 2016. The AFL rule tinkering has actually had a compounding effect on the style of play produced, which has advantaged certain team lists, and disadvantaged others, notably us. Pretty hard to turn our ship around, unfortunately, particularly in the nice safe harbour.
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rogerrocks 2016 Draft 8 years 1 week ago #24

rogerrocks
Has no one noticed that Walters is our new midfield gun? And he kicks goals while "resting" in the forward line.
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Morgan, Raglan Matt, DockerKnockers said You Beaut

Quiexo 2016 Draft 8 years 1 week ago #25

Quiexo
Whilst I completely agree with your summation about our desperate need for a KPP, Bizkit, the question remains - if we do end up with a high pick, should we just get a KPP even if he isn't "worth" a top 3-5 pick? As demo1 as alluded to, there is still a long way to go before draft day, but I was listening to Sanderson (who is the AFL Academy coach) on "Road to The Draft" podcast, and he seems to think that the the talent in this year's draft lies with the mids..

And Gammut, in response to your earlier post, is there any incentive at all to finishing mid-table? I'd rather we completely tank (or get experience to our kids, whichever way you wanna look at it..;p) and get a high pick than to finish 9th/10th after coming home with a wining streak of some description..
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Bizkit 2016 Draft 8 years 1 week ago #26

Bizkit
I haven't been keeping up with this seasons draft class but there should be a KPP around the mark in the 5-10 range and that's about where I expect our pick to be. I also wouldn't be surprised to see us exchange first round picks with someone else in trying to arrange a trade which might see us slip a few picks down where it may be more appropriate to take a tall.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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DockerKnockers 2016 Draft 8 years 1 week ago #27

DockerKnockers
I think most would agree that Fyfe has not been fully fit since his corkie in Round 15 2015. (He had 9 30+ disposal games in the first 13 games of 2015, has missed 6 games and only had 30+ twice since then). When I have discussed injuries to the midfield, I have spoken of the importance of 211 with Fyfe, Neale, Mundy, Barlow, Hill and D.Pearce. Since Round 14 of 2015, rarely has that combination been available and fit. 211, Mundy, D.Pearce and Barlow are nearing the ends of their careers. I am afraid that we have seen the best of our midfield, during which time we won plenty, when our midfield has been in tatters, we have lost plenty.

Before Johnno got injured in our first loss of the season, I think Richmond already had a 6 or 7 goal advantage in that game. So once again Bizkit, you're using very poor examples to support your opinion. Freo also won in Rounds 6 & 7 when McPharlin and Dawson were both missing.

Regarding 30+ disposals, again you just throw up your opinions without checking the data. GWS had less disposals than Freo in the 2015 H&A season. As usual, when I check your arguments, I find little evidence supporting your claims. The facts that none of those kids, you listed, have yet proven themselves in AFL or WAFL, in regards to high disposal numbers, means one should be at least a little wary when claiming them as future midfielders. And how is it that you dismiss the GWS 30+ disposal capable players that I listed, because some are not true mids, but you then list Freo youth who some of, have been recruited as forwards and defenders. You can't have it both ways Bizkit.
In any case your listed mids may or may not become quality mids in years to come, just the same as the young KPPs that I have listed, may or may not become quality KPPs.

"In any case we have many, many mids coming through and almost all with plenty of youth. What we don't have are KPP's and certainly not many with a long future. It is what we need most."
I listed just as many (actually more) possible KPPs on Freo's list as you listed mids. A team needs only a few KPPs, but they need many quality mids. I have provided many posts showing the statistics backing this up and I have yet to see anything in reply with any substantial examples or data supporting otherwise.
Gone to bigfooty where there's fewer Docker Haters.
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hypen 2016 Draft 8 years 1 week ago #28

hypen
Morgan, why would you not spend a top 5 pick on a ruckman?
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