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TOPIC: Coach Lyon

Bizkit Coach Lyon 7 years 11 months ago #57

Bizkit
The difference is Morgan, back then excitement and beautiful football was the norm and not the exception. There was the occasional game we lost but we tended to do some good things during them as well. Since RL the fun stuff to watch has been fleeting despite a large number of wins. We won more games last season than ever before yet there are barely any highlights from the season.

There were glimpses during quarters (generally the first) before dour and boring football took over. It's hard for those of us who enjoy the beauty of football to get behind RL when he coaches players the way he has.

As for Plan B's, Pav gave an insight in his book about Harvs and his outside the box thinking. He didn't like Harvs but had to admire the way he always seemed to come up with changes and tactics that caught the opposition off guard and were successful.

Like Blocker I believe Harvs was good enough to get that side to a premiership if given the chance. Unfortunately we'll never know and now we're stuck with RL for 5 years. I hope he has the skill set to rebuild but I'm not sure he does.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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teasea said You Beaut

rogerrocks Coach Lyon 7 years 11 months ago #58

rogerrocks
I actually thought our game against Adelaide was pretty good to watch.
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shirtfront, Noddy, DockerKnockers said You Beaut

Morgan Coach Lyon 7 years 11 months ago #59

Morgan
Ok, now you are just being mischievous. Our awesome comeback against Port last year, when we ran them off the park in the last quarter? Our thumping of the Cats? That first quarter against the Eagles? Mundy’s goal against Richmond to steal if for Freo? Our dismantling of North?

2010 was so much fun. Our expectations were low, and we overachieved. 2011 sucked. Totally sucked. You can't pretend it didn't happen and just extrapolate from 2010.

Anyway, there's probably no point arguing aesthetics. Eye of the beholder and all that.
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guy smiley Coach Lyon 7 years 11 months ago #60

guy smiley
Cast your mind back quite a few years and Rodney Eade was being accused of designing the flood, Paul Roos was responsible for unwatchable 'rugby style' footy and Clarkson was being fawned over for The Press. RoLy was appointed to much fanfare and breathless admiration from the football world for the ruthlessness of the coup and acclaimed as one of, if not the most, winning coaches around despite the grinding nature of his game plan.

Since then there has been plenty of well founded criticsm of that game plan and the toll it exerts on players, mixed in with praise for the way he gets players to buy into the plan and the effectiveness of that defensive style.

It's too easy to play the comparison game over hypotheticals involving Harvey and Lyon. That's not really the issue anyway, it's a handy lever to pull to discredit criticsm of Lyon, nothing more. What is an issue is the changing nature of the game and the ability of players and coaches to adapt. That's where the big question is being asked and so it should be... because on the face of it Lyon has been left behind in a way that suggests it's all very well to hold your ground but eventually even the biggest rocks get worn down by the river. Cynical word play in press conferences doesn't help. Staying on message is one thing, buying into the whatever is another but none of it means jack if the wins don't come.
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Bizkit, DazzElle, freofan61, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

Bizkit Coach Lyon 7 years 11 months ago #61

Bizkit
While it's true different people enjoy different things about the footy, I think it's a fair point to say the free flowing and aggressive football under Harvs was more aesthetically pleasing than the grinding, stoppage heavy slog that is RL's preference.

I don't think 2011 is a fair representation of the football under Harvs when so much of it was damaged by injuries. I can't remember a game that season where we still had 4 fit players on the bench at 3qtr time let alone the final siren! Even so there was plenty of good football played especially during the first half of the season when we were towards the top of the ladder.

I used last season as an example for the same reason I used 2010, it was our most successful under RL. Like I said though, you can extrapolate moments from the season and talk them up like Manic's goal at the MCG to give us the win. I was at that game and can tell you it was a horrible game to watch despite the close contest and that's the point. While I love Freo and enjoy winning, I also enjoy watching good football and that's not something that has happened often with us under RL.

I understand not everyone cares about the quality of football and are more interested in the result but I lean towards the former which is part of the reason I followed Freo in the first place. Watching some of the most talented and skillful players (most indigenous) and fantastic characters of the game was a large attraction to the club but that was killed off in large part when RL took over.

Under Harvs we had both an aesthically pleasing style of play and success. I want that again.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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blockerhall, guy smiley, Dr Sleep, DazzElle, Derby12 said You Beaut

The_Yeti Coach Lyon 7 years 11 months ago #62

The_Yeti
Well I'll put my hand up as one of those who was critical of Roly. I was also very critical of the steves for the unprofessional way they handled Harvey's departure. It was incredibly unprofessional for a bunch of blokes who were trumpeting a new era of professionalism at Freo, but there's ad men for you.

Roly was quite correctly criticised (in my view) for putting too much emphasis on defence to the point where offence was almost irrelevant. I would still see that criticism as being relevant today albeit he is belatedly trying to address it. Reality can be bitch some days.

Its similar to my criticisms of our list management policy as drafting 'best available' instead of drafting to fill identified needs. Again, there's that problem with reality that keeps making life hard.

As I said a few years ago, football requires a number of things to be balanced and we haven't been getting that balance part terribly correct for a while now.

That said, can Roly successfully address these issues. Dunno. I suspect nobody else really knows the answer to that as well, including Roly I would think as he's never built a list or formulated a fast movement game plan that requires a high level of skills and now he's required to do both.

We have to hope that he can though. We booked the guy for the next 5 years and the alternative makes for an uncomfortable train of thought. Also, if we give him the flick, what is the alternative? Who do we replace him with?

I mean there's always Malthouse if we want to burn the club for the next 20 years but I'd rather gouge my own eyes out than go there. Show me a realistic alternative otherwise, we have have to hope that Roly can do what he promises.
Egurls Suck!
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Lazza040 said You Beaut

shane Coach Lyon 7 years 11 months ago #63

shane
I'm hearing good things about Todd Curely.

Well, I was.
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The_Yeti Coach Lyon 7 years 11 months ago #64

The_Yeti
Listening to those 'voices' again, Shane?
Egurls Suck!
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guy smiley Coach Lyon 7 years 11 months ago #65

guy smiley
I don't know that it's simply a matter of who replaces Lyon, because a long contract extension pretty much rules that out. If it were a matter for real debate then there are plenty of up and coming coaches around the country that just don't attract the spotlight, because the spotlight is a lazy and conservative mechanism that serves to promote, not question.

What could happen though, is a similar clean out to the one Geelong carried out under Thompson. I reckon that would come down to a profit and loss calculation in the PR ledger though. Which would look better, in other words. How do we best enhance the brand.
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Derby12 said You Beaut

The_Yeti Coach Lyon 7 years 11 months ago #66

The_Yeti
I think the traditional response to your question, Guy, is something, something, something, new jumper.....
Egurls Suck!
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RideoftheVagaries Coach Lyon 7 years 11 months ago #67

RideoftheVagaries
Yeah, if we want to replace Lyon then we'd better do it with someone cheap, because there won't be much money left over.

I think there's also the question of why Lyon has implemented his game plan and the primary reason I reckon you'd find is because it's effective. There's not been much imperative to overhaul it because the feedback in terms of win/loss has been emphatically positive within the bounds of casual variability.

The beauty of the current situation is that Lyon has been given enough feedback to show the imperative for change and a big overhaul. Essentially all the conditions have changed, so the past isn't a great guide now anyways.
;p
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purplethai Coach Lyon 7 years 11 months ago #68

purplethai
I feel that Ross has been one step behind. Yes we had success but using a game plan basically developed by Paul Roos and it hasn't really evolved as fast as the game. He has bought in guys from Hawthorn who have been successful for three or four years but are they still the future of the game or the past?
Good coaches innovate and change the ground rules
Average coaches imitate and copy and, while they may have some success, will never be the future.
I am interested to see what Paul is doing with Melbourne at the moment !
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RideoftheVagaries Coach Lyon 7 years 11 months ago #69

RideoftheVagaries
In fairness, no one saw this coming. Even as recent as the pre-season comp Freo were holding their own, so there weren't massive warning bells on the freefall.
;p
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rogerrocks said You Beaut

Dockermus Coach Lyon 7 years 11 months ago #70

Dockermus
The form slump only makes sense if you open your mind to the possibility that Freo are tanking for high draft picks.
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