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The New Game Plan Excuse

TOPIC: The New Game Plan Excuse

Drubbing The New Game Plan Excuse 8 years 1 month ago #43

Drubbing
Brad Hill, 22yo. How many premierships has he got now? He's from here. Went to Hawthorn at pick 33 in 2011. Freo had a pick at 29 and took Forster. Played 1 game (a dead rubber) and spent the rest of the time in the WAFL. Top stuff from the top men, always looking for the best available mid at drafting time.

Yeah, hindsight an all, but if you have a chance to pick good looking local kids, then why pass them over?
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Jim153 said You Beaut

Flag_2005 The New Game Plan Excuse 8 years 1 month ago #44

Flag_2005
Indeed hindsight and all. Brad Hill was a rookie draft pick at best. The reason his stocks rose was his beep test at the draft camp. Thirty two other clubs overlooked him before Hawthorn selected him.

Nineteen clubs overlooked Nat Fyfe...
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RideoftheVagaries The New Game Plan Excuse 8 years 1 month ago #45

RideoftheVagaries
That overlooking Hill still rubs my craw, mainly because we had all sorts of reasons to take him and because Forster hardly unpacked his bags before being delisted. Although it could be that if we didn't pick Forster perhaps we wouldn't of taken Neale, them maybe seeming to be a bit of a package deal as far as Freo is concerned.
;p
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Morgan The New Game Plan Excuse 8 years 1 month ago #46

Morgan
Yeah, we missed Hill, but in the same draft we got Neale, Sheridan, Sutcliff and picked up Spurr in the rookie draft. Not world beating, but that's still a good draft.

I was surprised given the family connection we didn't take Brad. Maybe we didn't because of the family connection. I think it's fair to say Stephen and Brad are pretty different.

Hawks took Hill, then two spuds, then lucked out with Breust at pick 77. Not sure if the gap between the teams rests on that draft.
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guy smiley, rogerrocks, Raglan Matt, DockerKnockers said You Beaut

bozza The New Game Plan Excuse 8 years 1 month ago #47

bozza
What I don't get is you ask Pav to go around 1 more year to try grab the flag then you go and change the game plan ?

Remember we finished top of the ladder last year and with out Sam Mitchell's knee we go all the way.

Pav might as well make the next home game his last.
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DockerKnockers The New Game Plan Excuse 8 years 1 month ago #48

DockerKnockers
I struggle with all this blaming Roly, recruiting and not playing youth stuff.

If you look at Hawthorn's 2015 premiership team, these are the players that came from the 2011 draft onwards;
2014, James Frawley, (From) Melbourne, Free Agency
2013, Ben McEvoy, St Kilda, Trade
2012, Brian Lake, Western Bulldogs, Trade
2011, Jack Gunston, Adelaide, Trade
2011, Bradley Hill, WAFL, Draft (Pick #33)

So out of 33 pickups from 2011-2014 (inclusive), the Hawks found 5 new players in their 2015 premiership team and all but one was from trade and Free Agency.

Meanwhile, Freo played the following 7 players in their Preliminary Final loss to Hawthorn in 2015;
2011, Tom Sheridan, Draft (#16)
2011, Lachie Neale, Draft (#58)
2011, Cameron Sutcliffe, Draft (#71)
2011, Zac Dawson, PreSeason, St Kilda
2011, Lee Spurr, Rookie
2012, Danyle Pearce, Free Agency, Port Adelaide
2012, Matthew Taberner, Rookie

All that tells me, is that Hawthorn have simply managed to recruit better via the Trade, by virtue of (EDIT the fact ) possibly that more players want to be traded to Hawthorn. Freo have had to scrape the bottom of the barrel with such attempts as Colin Sylvia and Gumbleton.

Instead of just arguing generalised philosophies, I really wish some supporters would go to a little more effort to do a little fact finding and make up their own informed beliefs instead of just regurgitating what they read elsewhere.
And for the argument ... I'd rather have Lachie Neale than Bradley Hill every day of the week.
Gone to bigfooty where there's fewer Docker Haters.
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goodie, guy smiley, finalport, Burton said You Beaut

shane The New Game Plan Excuse 8 years 1 month ago #49

shane
What's the point of introducing these facts if you're going to base the entire argument on the assumption that it all comes down to players wanting to go to Hawthorn.
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guy smiley said You Beaut

guy smiley The New Game Plan Excuse 8 years 1 month ago #50

guy smiley
Some people just want to watch the world burn.
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jimb2 The New Game Plan Excuse 8 years 1 month ago #51

jimb2
If you want to look at the successes of other clubs you would need to line them up with their failures too. It would be interesting to see a bit of analysis rather than random factoids.
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DockerKnockers The New Game Plan Excuse 8 years 1 month ago #52

DockerKnockers
Shane, I just thought throwing up a few facts might add a little more to the topic, rather than just blaming Chris Bond for taking one Contested Mark in his final year of football.
NB: Statistics for Contested Marks were only recorded in 1999, the last season of 10 that Chris Bond played in.

It's easy being a cynic, isn't it.
Gone to bigfooty where there's fewer Docker Haters.
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Drubbing The New Game Plan Excuse 8 years 1 month ago #53

Drubbing
Look at what Hawthorn have done with their picks. Sure not all of them work out, as is with any club. But they have very few passengers skills-wise in their team. This is what makes them better than the rest.

We have a busload.

As I've argued for a while now, Lyon has taken a team short of talent, and made it win games with hard work, and a system. His blue collar team is a euphemism for 'we're low on talent so our skills are crap'. Now his system isn't working, and many of his key players are either gone, or too old to keep up.

I don't buy the game plan thing either. These are pro footballers, most of whom have played together for years. To say they're struggling to implement a game plan that was surely planned before pre season training is media BS. I don't buy the confidence thing either. If Mayne has lost it, he lost it over two years ago. What will get it back, a few back to back wins? WE have a team that smashed their way through the first half of last year, limped through the rest of it, to surely the least convincing Minor Premiership. You don't lose confidence that badly, that quickly.

Lyon and the steves are trying to cover for clear deficiencies in the current team and list, with bears and smokescreens.
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The_Yeti, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

shane The New Game Plan Excuse 8 years 1 month ago #54

shane
That's not really being a cynic. That's not understanding where the metaphor began.

That Hawthorn has been successful at recruiting because players want to go to their club is an opinion. A generalised philosophy. A regurgitation what you read elsewhere. It's not a fact.

Fremantle have had several good players over the last few years indicate that they have wanted to go to the club. Fremantle have unable to secure their services. Each occasion they have had a reasonable sounding excuse but when it happens again and again it's a pattern that would suggest to me, and this is only an opinion, that it's anexecution problem rather than circumstances.
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The_Yeti, demo1, clinical, Derby12, Corporal Agarn said You Beaut

clinical The New Game Plan Excuse 8 years 1 month ago #55

clinical
Its nothing to do with the game plan. We have too many spuds with poor skills who turn the ball over repeatedly or kick points from set shots. Faster more skillful teams then cut us to pieces.
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DockerKnockers The New Game Plan Excuse 8 years 1 month ago #56

DockerKnockers
I stand corrected Shane, so I have edited my post from stating a fact to a possible reason.

Now regarding your metaphor about Chris Bond ...
"Chris Bond is a poor mark for his size. He has never once exceeded expectations. You might be able to argue on each occasion that it would have been difficult for him to do better but the complete record of never having a win, never coming out the better of circumstance, tells me that we need someone better in his position."

It appears Chris Bond was not a good Contested Mark and I also generally like players who are skilled in this area (eg. Sutcliffe frustrates me). But Chris Bond had one Contested Mark in 1999 and who knows how many in his 9 seasons prior (when Contested Mark stats were not recorded) and he was only about 178cm high (NB: Peter Bell and Ballas only recorded one CM in their last seasons of football) ... just saying, it's easy to pick out little faults with people's posts.
Gone to bigfooty where there's fewer Docker Haters.
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