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TOPIC: Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne

Mushroom Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #29

Mushroom
Morgan is actually quite correct in everything he said - including his first and foremost comment that the free kick should not have been paid.

The fact that he can point to all these bits of stuff that can be moulded into an excuse, or reason, to pay a free kick or not exemplifies the problem that umpires do not umpire with a feel for the game and what it takes to play it and how you must move on the field to do so.

It's a concern and it will never go away unless players are made to umpire and umpires made to play and a large assumption of learning capacity is chucked in.
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Drubbing Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #30

Drubbing
None of this wavers my opinion that a cohort of the umpires have serious bias issues, and not only get away with it, but are rewarded for it with the gig they most covet. Which means more of the same from them next season.
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

RideoftheVagaries Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #31

RideoftheVagaries
C'mon Morgan, are you really saying it takes a lot for the human brain to generalise and dislike a group? It's pretty much at the heart of the survival instinct and our brains need to conserve its resources that it categorises and generalises at the drop of a hat.
;p
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Nolo180 Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #32

Nolo180
I like Stevics little dig at the commentators for not giving true assessments of the play in relation to the rules. You know when a comment comes from the commentry team in freos favour things are going bad for the umpies in a big way. Normally its a "nothing to see here, move along".

Still waiting for video footage of the hodge free kick. If it wasnt dodgy im sure it would of been aired at the time.
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Morgan Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #33

Morgan
ROTV, believe me, I understand how little it takes for people to identify with ingroups / outgroups - I actually wrote an honours thesis on the topic way back in the day when I wanted to help human beings (studying psychology) rather than exploit them (later studying law).

But these aren't anonymous men playing footy. They are known individuals who have real-life human interactions with umpires, and it's much more likely that any bias will be at that level, rather than the colour of their jumper. I think we get genuine issues is where players get too chummy with umpires, or are too well known for being dirty. It's hard to wind back those perceptions.

But as Mushroom points out, umpiring is really hard, and umpiring AFL even harder. There is so much nuance in the rules, and they keep changing. I agree that the biggest issue is a lack of game sense, which the AFL tried to correct be encouraging ex-players to umpire. But then you run into issues with players having a previous relationship with certain players, clubs and coaches.

None of which excuses that Stevic call. Just a dead-set shocker.
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RideoftheVagaries Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #34

RideoftheVagaries
Yes, people never stereotype or generalise the people they work with…don't work in IR law?

Halo effect anyone? Ballantyne, Crowley, Lyon, plus a whole bunch of natural-order type thinking.

If you were to design an experiment that demonstrates the existence of any (surprising to the conscious) unconscious bias, you couldn't get any better than those present in umpiring a footy match at AFL level.
;p
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Raglan Matt Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #35

Raglan Matt
Morgan , the one thing that stuffs up your rationale, is that Freo had the ball and Balla's was running to lead or make space for a teammate to make a lead. Any opposition player who gets in the way of a leading player is the one doing the blocking. Ballantyne is within his rights to run wherever he wants, and the defender has the DUTY OF CARE to make sure he doesn't block the attacking player more than 5 mt off the ball. So in the laws of the game, and in the spirit of the game Stevic made the wrong decision, simply because he is incorrigibly biased against Ballantyne and Freo. The umpires coaches and advisors who have backed him on this call thefore must also be incorrigibly biased against Ballantyne and Freo.
This being shown to be the case by the decision made in this instance, and in other instances, such as but not limited to the Mumford* bump Fyfe case, the AFL is duty bound to investigate and punish the offending officials. Do they do that? NO they reward them with a grand final gig.
And by the way Morgan, the Mumford hit on Fyfe took place while a Freo player was lining up for a shot on goal, not sure if from a mark or free kick, so an immediate 50 mt penalty should have been awarded, or as I saw against Ballas a couple of years ago, another shot on goal before the ball went back to the centre.

* Edit thanks to PK for pointing out the mistaken identity, would hate to see the wrong man hung, unless it was Hodge or Mitchell.
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purple kit Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #36

purple kit
Think you mean Pyke not mummy, unless it was a couple of years ago.
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Rhufus Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #37

Rhufus
Morgan everything you say makes sense, the only problem is that it is wrong.
If you were correct, then eventually the free kick situation would even its way out. Some years we would lose the free kick count, others we would win it.
How come then we always lose it?
The chances of that happening under your theories are slim.

PS its good to have you as an opposing view to the conspiracy theorists though! Keep it up.
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Morgan said You Beaut

Corporal Agarn Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #38

Corporal Agarn
Is there any footage available of the Pyke bump on Fyfe off the ball?
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Raglan Matt Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #39

Raglan Matt
Sorry PK got my big Swans mixed up, it has been a confusing week. But the argument still stands.
CA I am sure I saw a link on Dockerland, but if not there will be plenty of places to find it, starting with the AFL replays. I don't think they would have edited it out.......... Would they??????
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Dockerplus Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #40

Dockerplus
Morgan in the era where "duty of care" is so important it appears that in Ballantyne's case a light brush of shoulders was sufficient to pay a free kick whilst Pike's forceful shove into the back of an unsuspecting Fyfe causing him to hit the ground (with an umpire nearby) is not.
Double standards?
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Fre_DOh Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #41

Fre_DOh
Agarn,

cdndata.bigfooty.com/2015/09/177811_b1b6...e92f6649b7ee5224.gif

Umpire in the foreground is Robert Findlay.
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Raglan Matt Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #42

Raglan Matt
Did Pyke go off his line? lucky Fyfe was expecting contact and in the play, or it would have been a free kick to him.
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Dockerplus, rogerrocks, slammen, clinical, werdnarewop, Docker by the Sea said You Beaut