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Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne

TOPIC: Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne

Dockerplus Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #15

Dockerplus
See mushroom's attachment above and read Stevic's comments.
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Morgan Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #16

Morgan
It was an absolute shocker.

In an ideal world, Stevic would come out and say there wasn't really anything in it, that he was a bit too keyed up on the night, and in any event, no-one wants to see such soft reversals during a prelim.

That said, the Hawks bloke had no reason to expect contact, Ballas saw him the whole way, and gave him a cheeky one. The AFL is trying to get rid of this stuff, so, Stevic can't say the above. He can't say it's not a free kick (technically it's there), he won't say he was too wound up because that would admit he is a bad ump, and he can't say that there should be a different set of rules for H&A and finals - even though it's what everyone expects.

He should have just said nothing.

As for Ballas, he has escaped blame in this. He had absolutely nothing to gain by this, and it gave the umps the chance to pay a free kick and swing momentum. Either flatten the bloke, or just play the ball.
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Flag_2005 Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #17

Flag_2005
Morgan - that's a fair observation regarding Ballas but consider this scenario: Ballas is actually Hodge, Mitchell or any other Hawk and it's a Freo player who gets nudged in exactly the same circumstances.

Does Stevic make the same decision?
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Morgan Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #18

Morgan
I reckon the identity of the player definitely influences the decision. In this case it was Ballas - who has earned a reputation for being a dirty player - hitting (I think) Breust, who is as close to a cleanskin as there is in the game. I don't think it's necessarily conscious or premeditated, but I reckon it has an influence on how umpires perceive the incident. So, if it was Breust clipping Ballas there's no way that gets called.

As for Hodge, I'm not sure if his dirty actions have stuck in the same way. Being a multiple premiership winning captain seems to have a Teflon effect.

But Ballas cast himself in the role of the villain from his early days. He's not blameless.
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Raglan Matt Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #19

Raglan Matt
Morgan it was Suckling he hit, rather apt I think, But just imagine if it was Mumford who hit Suckling like that. What would Stevic do then? (purely rhetorical question I guess)
I would not be so insistent on a bias against Freo if the umpires and their advisors came out and said that occasionally they get one wrong with Freo. They don't, they believe their decisions are fair and just. Every other side in the comp has had an apology from the officials over umpiring decisions over the last few years. I cannot recall any time since sirengate that Freo have, and even then it was very reluctant.
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Dockerplus Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #20

Dockerplus
Sorry Morgan but I don't see Ballas coming off his line; its Smith who bumps into him.
If it's that "stuff " the Awfl wants to rid of then they should be paying 100s of frees per game: before the bounce, in the centre square, at boundary throw ins and at marking contests.
In most cases this stuff is not even considered relevant in our prelim it was.
Let's again consider Pike's hit on Fyfe during the QF. Is that one one the "stuff" they're trying to get rid of?
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RideoftheVagaries Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #21

RideoftheVagaries
So Morgan, if they can adopt that sort of mindset towards Ballantyne, could they not just as easily adopt a similar one to the Freo side in general?
;p
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Drubbing Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #22

Drubbing
Never minds Stevic's mindless justification. The umpire feed from off the ground tells you all you need to know. They are being coached on field, to target certain players. Do they do the same for Mitchell and Hodge you reckon?

If it were a hawks player on any of ours, no one would be tlaking about it because nothing would have been paid.

The worse news in all this, is these umps are rewarded with a GF, and are seen to have been the most consistent in the game - consistently biased, that is.
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rogerrocks Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #23

rogerrocks
ROTV, they've already done that, haven't they?
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Jefferys Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #24

Jefferys
Thanks for that, Im even more dumbfounded than ever. Everyone seems to be mentioning hypotheticals but go back to Cripps v Silvagni.

"We've been coached really strongly over a number of years now to look at blocks off the ball," Stevic said on Tuesday morning.
"We're certainly looking for one player going out of his way or moving off a line to pick another player off.

Cripps definitely went off his line to get in his way of Silvagni.
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Morgan Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #25

Morgan
I think the ‘Ballas didn’t run off his line’ stuff is a furfy. A player was running backwards, he was running forwards looking at him. Ballas is not allowed to sneak in a cheap shot off the ball just because he didn’t deviate from his line. Not in the ‘duty of care’ era. There was no reason for him to hit him. It’s not good enough to say “I’m going run like this now, and if I happen to crash into your back it’s your own fault.”

My issue was one of impact. He clearly didn’t hit him hard enough to warrant a free kick (certainly in a prelim). Stevic might have been technically correct, but in terms of the ‘spirit of the rules he was so far off the mark it’s not funny.

On the other hand, Pike cannoned into Fyfe’s back in the Qualifying Final for no free kick. Should that one have been paid? I’m not sure. I reckon the umpire decided that no-one wanted to see games decided by bumps off the ball, and let it go. He ignored the rule, but I reckon made the right (or at least defendable) choice not to give a free kick.

As for the unconscious bias stuff ROTV, I’m not sure it would apply to whole teams as easily as it would to certain players, but it’s certainly possible. Umps would clearly know Ballas is up to stuff – in part because he’s usually up to stuff – but they would also know that Dawson is clumsy, so he probably gets away with more stuff than he should. Would they think ‘Freo are dirty’, or ‘I don’t like Freo’, probably not. Umps would have people on each team they liked or didn’t like. You can’t take away pre-conceived notions about players, and it’s hard to umpire against those notions - you’re getting into ‘don’t think of a pink elephant’ territory. So to answer your question, I think umpires’ opinions on certainly players would be much stronger than certain nebulous feelings about entire clubs.
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The_Yeti Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #26

The_Yeti
Video clearly shows that both players did not deviate off their line and that contact was minimal. Balls, the smaller of the two players was slightly moved to his left, while Suckling went down like a sack of spuds.

Stevic's rather feeble justification that he is satisfied Ballas moved off his line to block Suckling just does not stand up to scrutiny. It just never happened. Other off the ball contacts that night did not attract the same response from Stevic, so his explanation that they are trained to watch out for that sort of thing again does not withstand scrutiny.

Stevic has a long and painful history of being very onesided in hawthorn games. I nominated this very point about this time last week and was lampooned by some on here for saying it. I hate to say this but unfortunately I was right....and really wish I wasn't.

Anyway, it the slimes turn to get roasted this week. Dalgliesh will do his bet to even it up for the girls but I think they'll go down 2 -1 and again AFL will contort events to fit the narrative. Nobody will be held responsible for the obvious failures that exist.

We need to start paying off journos to lead the charge in public. Right now we are just an easy target for the AFL because injustices against Freo do not attract the only thing that has an impact at AFL House, bad publicity. Look how they reacted to the bad publicity on the weekend. When AFL House starts drawing crabs, the bull**** will stop.
Egurls Suck!
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clinical Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #27

clinical
Sorry Morgan your usual fair and balanced opinion has taken a turn. This call was softer than butter, had no place on a footy field, let alone a prelim, and was called wrong at the time by every commentator on tv and radio. It was in no way a block, jut your regular old shoulder on shoulder bump when jogging towards he ball, but softer. You can't try and justify the unjustifiable.
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Morgan Umpires/MRP vs Ballantyne 8 years 7 months ago #28

Morgan
I agree 100% it was a shocker, and have said so repeatedly. I'm just saying that:
- Ballas occasionally hurts the team by getting involved in this sort of stuff; and
- that the umpires won't come out and say it's wrong because on a very technical argument blokes shouldn't be cannoning into the backs of other players. The problem is Ballas didn't 'canon' he brushed, but the umpires would be unwilling to open that can of worms.
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