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Lip service perhaps?

TOPIC: Lip service perhaps?

Raglan Matt Lip service perhaps? 8 years 7 months ago #29

Raglan Matt
Pavlich, Sandi, Clarke, Tabs, Mayne and Fyfe are ALL held off the ball just as often as Tippet was on the weekend, and are not paid 6 free kicks a game between them let alone each, so that blows that rationale out of the water. Chris Judd went through his whole career taking twice as long as any other player to dispose of the ball in the tackl, and was rarely penalised for holding the ball, so there is another example of double standards which will stand up to further scrutiny.

Freo have a home crowd which is just as loud as any, but more knowledgable than our co-tenants, so saying the crowd noise is a factor can be easily argued against as a reason for the biased free kick stats also. That leaves incompetent umpiring as a reason, but the lack of randomness in the free kick stats would argue against this reason. That also leaves bias, which seems to be a logical explanation.
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Alvin Prpl, DazzElle, slammen, werdnarewop, Fyfe-ite, DockerKnockers, LoyalSupporter said You Beaut

Morgan Lip service perhaps? 8 years 7 months ago #30

Morgan
I actually disagree with most of that RM, at least on the weekend.

Pavlich was 2m in front of Richards all day. Mayne never got held because he wasn't considered a threat in a marking contest and got his marks in space. Clarke never got to the contest. Tabs was at Peel.

Sandi rarely gets kicks for being held, which is an issue. He cops the same treatment as Shaq did in the NBA - the officials consider both too big to be troubled by minor holding. However, he infringes on every other centre bounce, and only gives away one free kick a game, so I'm not sure we can play the victim too much on that one.
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Drubbing Lip service perhaps? 8 years 7 months ago #31

Drubbing
Dalgleish's F & A stats for Freo and WC say everything there needs to be said about the lack of integrity in umpiring.

You simply cannot come up with are result that unequivocal and say it's anything other than bias, and plain cheating.

Umpiring neutrality would deliver fairly random results in wins and losses of frees from one umpires stats. You'd win some, lose some. His results are rigged.
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point less, werdnarewop said You Beaut

Raglan Matt Lip service perhaps? 8 years 7 months ago #32

Raglan Matt
Sorry Morgan, I wasn't limiting my observations on the for and against free kick situation with our forwards to just 1 game, and can I presume that you agree with the Judd comparison and the home crowd/ free kicks awarded observation?
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RideoftheVagaries Lip service perhaps? 8 years 7 months ago #33

RideoftheVagaries
I don't think fatuous statements like Sandi "infringes on every other centre bounce" helps with the credibility of your argument Morgan. The weekend was particularly problematical and is definitely one area that needs cleaning up, because Pyke & Tippet constantly had their arms draped around Sandi's shoulder, to the extent he was probably waiting for them to whisper sweet nothings in his ear.
;p
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The_Yeti, rogerrocks, slammen, Raglan Matt, Fyfe-ite, DockerKnockers said You Beaut

rogerrocks Lip service perhaps? 8 years 7 months ago #34

rogerrocks
The lack of frees to Sandi is a real problem. What is the point of having a 211cm monster if you know that he will have no impact as a forward because he can be mercilessly scragged?

They shows a slo mo of the arm round his neck. You have to watch a few minutes before the slo mo replay. Just how do umpires fail to see such things?

BTW, if we'd given away a free like that, my initial reaction would have been "bull$#@!, there was nothing in it", and on seeing the replay, I would have been like, "Oh, ok then".
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Morgan Lip service perhaps? 8 years 7 months ago #35

Morgan
On the Sandi point, the word 'bounce' is the key.

On most centre bounces Sandi jumps into his opponent, lands, and then palms the ball. It basically neutralises his opponent illegally, and it could be called as a block most times.

For ball-ups, it's a different story. Both players normally lock-up, and they try to hold Sandi a bit.. It's hard to officiate who has initiated, and it never works anyway, so the umps just let it go.
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RideoftheVagaries Lip service perhaps? 8 years 7 months ago #36

RideoftheVagaries
See I know that isn't true by the use of the verb "jump". But if they're both in the process of jumping it neutralises it.

Also I'm not sure how they can interpret an arm over the shoulder as legal in any sort of instance.
;p
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The_Yeti, slammen said You Beaut

Morgan Lip service perhaps? 8 years 7 months ago #37

Morgan
Yeah, but using a bad call as an example of bias is like saying man-made climate change is proven because it's warm today.

They miss all sort of free kicks against Sandi. But I'm glad they don't pay the ticky-touch frees in the ruck. The ones that bother me is when three blokes are hanging off Sandi when he goes forward. Every forward has to put up with umps being too gutless to call that, but it seems particularly egregious with Sandi.
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rogerrocks said You Beaut

Drubbing Lip service perhaps? 8 years 7 months ago #38

Drubbing
They should pay him his marks in the goal square. He doesn't get many.
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Noddy said You Beaut

RideoftheVagaries Lip service perhaps? 8 years 7 months ago #39

RideoftheVagaries
No, I'd use the considered conclusions of 97% of published papers by climate scientists to help me decide on the likely cause of climate change...and I'm saying that it wasn't one bad call, but a pretty consistent theme throughout the day.
;p
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

Morgan Lip service perhaps? 8 years 7 months ago #40

Morgan
And that's my point about free kicks. Yes, we receive fewer than almost every other team. But people just take the 'they don't like us' explanation as a cause, without considering the alternative potential causes, including the obvious one, that we give away more free kicks.

When you attempt to draw out more compelling evidence as to the cause, you just get more free kick stats.
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smerf said You Beaut

docker1940 Lip service perhaps? 8 years 7 months ago #41

docker1940
In the Fyfe v Kennedy encounter, I think the umpire got it wrong.
It wasn't a holding the ball decision, I thought it was Fyfe illegally disposing of the ball i.e throwing it.
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RideoftheVagaries Lip service perhaps? 8 years 7 months ago #42

RideoftheVagaries
I'm not sure you've offered any particularly compelling evidence that "we give away more free kicks". If so why? And why are we so far down the "frees for" stack?

I'm not sure we going to get any particular answers (or action) on it. As a team Freo can only look to minimise any mistakes they make that might be resulting in more frees given and whether there's anything we can do about the "frees for"... I'm not sure I'd want to.

But mine was a specific point on the free kicks not being paid to Sandi anyways. A real point of difference for us and a not too insignificant weapon if unencumbered.
;p
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