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TOPIC: The Untouchable

RideoftheVagaries The Untouchable 7 years 10 months ago #15

RideoftheVagaries
Didn't this thread start with the proposal that Lyon is getting away Scott free (primary reason is that he's got a fiver to go)? Then why would he need to cover his backside?

Just maybe last week he wanted a good look at Silavagni's chops and/or give him a chance to add to his resume with not much time left before they get to a more critical than most off season for quite a few players. Or maybe they've rethought some things for the end of the year in terms of players development. I'd want them to try a few things now they've got a free swing as it were.
;p
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Jezza The Untouchable 7 years 10 months ago #16

Jezza
Polly, Brisbane have been a basket case for at least the last 5 years. In that time we've played 4 consecutive finals which includes a grandy. I thought this week we improved after last week's debacle. Players like Weller, Langdon, Tucker, Yarran and Collins played very well. Get used to it Roly will be here until 2020. We've got and will have talent to burn. 2016, is an aberration. If you live in the past, you'll missed the future.
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rogerrocks, Fyfe-ite said You Beaut

Morgan The Untouchable 7 years 10 months ago #17

Morgan
Extrapolating from last week's match-ups this this weeks is a fool's errand. Kennedy and Buddy are completely different beasts. Buddy is big, but doesn't play tall. When was the last time he took a pack mark, or even a mark over his head? Collins has some good attributes, but leg speed isn't one of them. That makes him little limited, and certainly he would have been an appalling match-up for Buddy.

Kennedy is more versatile. He can get out on the lead, crash a pack and take a good pluck overhead. You'd give Collins a crack on the basis he can match him in the air, and hope that his teammates can cover the space in front to head off any leads. But that didn't work out, and that's not all Collins' fault. Dawson has a good record against Kennedy, but I don't think he'd have fared much better today (although he would have worn a great deal more scorn).

It was a good learning experience for Collins, but the secondary point is where would Collins have gone had he been moved off Kennedy? West Coast were playing a pretty small forward line with only really Darling, Le Crap, Yeo and Josh Hill rotating through there for most of the game. Collins can't cover any of those, so he would have had to go to the pine.

I reckon Collins could be useful in a well-balanced backline. We just don't have one at the moment.
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Noddy, Raglan Matt, Fyfe-ite, Quiexo said You Beaut

Flag_2005 The Untouchable 7 years 10 months ago #18

Flag_2005
Weller against Josh P Kennedy in the centre square last week, Sheridan in the centre square and forward today and Collins playing 90 minutes on the best forward in the game today.

If you don't think the coach has started preparing for 2017 already you're not seeing the wood for the trees.

And Blakely barely plays 60% of game time. He's potentially a super player but doesn't have the endurance to match his game style. There's nothing wrong with giving him more time at Peel.
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Fyfe-ite said You Beaut

pollyanna The Untouchable 7 years 10 months ago #19

pollyanna
Weller wasn't in the centre against Kennedy last week. He was floating around the half-forward flank, sulking. Nor was he 'hard at the ball' today (as RoLy stated) - he was floating around, demanding the ball in really stupid places and sulking when no one was stupid enough to gift him a stat. He's been acting like a 4 year old and should be given a spell in the idiot corner.
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

Corporal Agarn The Untouchable 7 years 10 months ago #20

Corporal Agarn
Jezza, I like Collins and think he's stood up really well this year, but he was not good today. He was on Kennedy remember.

Morgan, the other option for him was sooky Darling, which would have been good as he was causing no problems at all. Or if we like the idea of throwing players around and experimenting, try him in the forward line and put Mayne back on Darling.
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Bizkit The Untouchable 7 years 10 months ago #21

Bizkit
I can't agree Morgan that JJK and Buddy are different forwards, they are both very quick and good on a lead as well as being fantastic with the ball on the floor for someone of their size. Buddy loves crashing a pack too although he doesn't hold as many contested marks as JJK. They are very similar players and Collins is not really equipped at this point to deal with them which is why it's a bizarre decision to leave him to get roasted by JJK today.

As for other options if Collins wasn't on JJK, you'd play him on the resting ruckman or Darling (although a paper bag could handle Darling).

No one's mentioned Blakely's endurance as a reason for his demotion yet Flag. I'm pretty sure his tank is better than many out there today and considering how natural a footballer he is, I don't think he'd need a big one to find plenty of the ball and have a big impact. Like Barlow, he knows where to go and what to do to get the ball. There's no way in hell I'd believe Blakely got more out of playing against whoever is in Claremont's midfield over the Swans inside mids. If you want learning experiences then that is the perfect situation.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
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shirtfront said You Beaut

ChewyBoot The Untouchable 7 years 10 months ago #22

ChewyBoot
Its just a fact that Blakely has played an average of around 60% of game time, except for the game against Melbourne.

Weller was in at the centre square bounces for some of the game last week. Like that 50/50 ball that he charged at an won against an oncoming West Coast player today in the middle of ground.

Thought Tucker was the best of the youngsters today.
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Morgan The Untouchable 7 years 10 months ago #23

Morgan
Bizkit, it's not just about what Buddy can do, but where he does it. When SCOS was towelling him in a final a couple of years ago, he ran onto the wing and singlehandedly shut that gate. If you were to compare JKK and Buddy's heat maps, I'd suspect that JKK spends a lot more time in the forward 50, and Buddy hits a much higher speed when he is up the ground.

I agree the best strategy today would have been to put him on Darling and let him do his worst, but at least in theory, that would also have been a bad match up.

In Pearce and Collins we have two taller defenders with big upside, but we could really use a key backman with a bit of pace. It's trite, but we really miss McPharlin.
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Raglan Matt said You Beaut

ChewyBoot The Untouchable 7 years 10 months ago #24

ChewyBoot
So who played on Darling today. I had the impression for the most part it was Silvagni, although Mayne flitted back at times and maybe Ibbotson occasionaly.

Ignoring the fact that we're saying he's complete rubbish, Darling comes higher up the ground more so than Kennedy and maybe whoever was quelling him - was stopping the ball at a higher point - stopping it from coming in deeper except on occasions - so perhaps they wanted to stick with that - and back the midfield in to keep winning contests to send the supply into our forward line more - which was happening in the first half.
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RideoftheVagaries The Untouchable 7 years 10 months ago #25

RideoftheVagaries
I would of thought Alex Pearce had plenty of pace for a bloke his size and even for quite a few shorter.
;p
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Fyfe-ite said You Beaut

Corporal Agarn The Untouchable 7 years 10 months ago #26

Corporal Agarn
Collins I think does have big upside, but your description paints him as a one dimensional plodder who should never be allowed to play on anyone that moves around the forward line or up the ground a lot.
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teasea The Untouchable 7 years 10 months ago #27

teasea
I'm sure ZacD will be able to cheer up young Collins - after all he was towelled up when at Hawks by Rocca and has gone on to play 150 games!!!
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Bizkit The Untouchable 7 years 10 months ago #28

Bizkit
I'm not saying they are the exact same player but they are very similar KPF's. They like to roam around and move, using their superior athleticism and strength to win the footy both in the air and on the ground against other talls. JJK loves to run up the ground and lay plenty of tackles (more than Buddy) while he only takes half a mark per game more (though buddy does get a few more touches a game). They have similar traits and Collins pace and ground work would be exposed purely because they are probably the two best KPF's in the comp both pace wise and with the ball below their knees (along with maybe Cameron).

I doubt it would be many KPD's strength or an easy thing to adjust to but APearce appears to be pretty good with that and SCOS covers it alright when he keeps his feet. It'd probably be the weakest part of Collins game and I doubt playing on JJK made it any better.

I reckon Collins would have done well on any of Lycett, Notacluey or Darling who are all worse on the ground than JJK as well as their speed of movement and body work.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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